Bryan McAnulty [00:00:00]:

Will AI replace copywriters? Tools like ChatGPT can generate pages of text in just seconds, but can they write as good as a professional copywriter? Today we're interviewing Jasmine Williams. She's an award winning writer, content marketing expert, and the founder of Jasmine Williams Media. She's helped businesses worldwide scale with strategic storytelling and she's here to show us how to embrace AI without losing the human touch. Jasmine is also the founder of ClickBank Worthy Creatives, an education hub for freelance creatives. And she's been thriving in the content world for over six years.

Jasmine Williams [00:00:33]:

I think with AI, if we're all using it, then we're all going to sound the same. And especially if you're not tailoring it enough to your brand, you're, you're just not going to stand out. And that's a huge part of successful marketing.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:47]:

So if you're curious about how copywriters can thrive in the AI era, then stay tuned as we dive into Jasmine's insights, strategies and predictions. And for the future of content creation. Welcome to the Creator's Adventure where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. Hey everyone, I'm Brian McEnulty, the founder of Hedge platform. Let's get into it. Hey Jasmine, welcome back to the show.

Jasmine Williams [00:01:19]:

Hi. Thank you for having me back. I'm excited to be here.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:22]:

Yeah, it's been almost a few years, I think, since we last had you on. So for those watching and listening, definitely check out that previous episode as well if you want to learn more about Jasmine. But Jasmine, my first question for you today is, what would you say is the biggest thing either that you did or are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?

Jasmine Williams [00:01:44]:

Oh, my goodness. I think it's taking educated risks. I think when I first started my business, I wasn't exactly sure what kind of business I wanted to do. I just knew that I wanted to do my own thing in some way. And for me, it was when I started kind of looking around like I was working in content marketing and I was in different freelance communities and groups online. And I started just kind of putting words together like content marketing, consulting and throwing that into Google and seeing what would come out. And that helped me a lot to sort of imagine what building that kind of business could look like. And then from there I was able to connect with people.

Jasmine Williams [00:02:33]:

And I think it's like that, that kind of representation, you know, like once I talked to people who were doing what I wanted to do or doing something that I felt that I could do and I felt that I had a similar background to then it just became that much more real and I felt like I could have, I could do it, I could see it. So that's what I mean about the, I guess the educated risk in that of course it's a risk to venture out on your own and defy the conventions of a traditional 9 to 5 job. But once I could see other people who are doing it and thriving, then I guess for me that risk felt tolerable. It felt like I could at least give it a shot. And I think with anything, I have always had that mindset of I'll give it a shot for maybe six months, see how it goes. I really don't think that you can like, you can always go back, right? You can always go back and find a job or do what you have to do. So, yeah, that's I think the, the biggest thing for me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:03:33]:

Yeah, I like how you described that. I'm curious those like initial discoveries of seeing like what's out there or what might be possible, how like is, has your business turned into kind of what you discovered there or if you look back at that point, is like what you're doing now, is that what you discovered or not or is it completely different?

Jasmine Williams [00:03:55]:

Actually, I mean, I think it's gone through a lot of evolutions. I'm sure any business owner probably can relate to that. So when I started, what I was doing was pretty similar to what I was doing in house. So I was working for a nonprofit doing content marketing. So I was managing the company blog, the social media channels. So when I initially started my business, I just, I kind of clicked where I was like, oh, I could just offer these as services as a consultant or like a one person agency. And that's a way to build a business. So that's how I started.

Jasmine Williams [00:04:31]:

And then over time I kind of doubled down on certain things. I realized, like writing has always been my passion and my strength. So leaned more into writing, leaned away from the social media. And then of course too, as I grew in my skillset, it became less around just executing and more about strategy. I added content strategy to my list of skills. And then I think throughout the pandemic, that's when I started learning about online courses. So I started thinking about how can I, I think, make that transition from one to one to one to many. I think a lot of consultants hit that point when they realize, okay, I think I'm kind of doing the same thing over and over again or Answering the same questions over and over again.

Jasmine Williams [00:05:14]:

Is there a way to put this knowledge somewhere and give a lot of people access to it versus just having access to me and my brain? So. So it went through that evolution. And, yeah, now I'm in a very different kind of phase, which I think we'll get into too. But, yeah, I think it's always. It's evolved. But I think for me, a big part of my business and just approach to my career, storytelling has always been important to me, and education has always been really important. So those ingredients are still there. But how I kind of approach those things has shifted along the way as I've gotten older and gained more experience.

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:59]:

Yeah. So we saw on your Instagram that you've now celebrated six years in business. So congratulations and thank you. What would you say is, like, the most valuable lesson that you've learned so far in these years of being an entrepreneur?

Jasmine Williams [00:06:13]:

Most valuable lesson? I think for me, it's been to really. To learn to really trust myself and to trust my instincts. I think I am the kind of person to really research and really try to think things through as much as possible. I don't think that's a bad thing. But then sometimes you just know in your gut that something is not a good fit, or maybe something is not working for you and you can't fully explain it in a logical way right away, but you just know inherently that that's not right. And I think sometimes, many times I didn't listen to that. And then, like, I had to deal with the consequences of not listening to it versus just, you know, if I. If I had listened to it right away, I could have avoided some of those, I guess, stickier points of my business journey.

Jasmine Williams [00:07:07]:

And I think, you know, at the end of the day, all of those things are learning opportunities, and they've shaped me. But, yeah, I think that's. That's been a big one for sure.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:18]:

Yeah, that's a good point. Since the last time that we spoke, the digital world was a bit different than today, because now AI has taken over all these aspects of digital marketing. And as a copywriting professional, how did the advent of AI kind of affect your business?

Jasmine Williams [00:07:38]:

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It was a game changer. I think it's been a game changer for everybody. Right. I think specifically for me as a copywriter, it really highlighted the importance of positioning and having a really strong niche. I think I was in a fortunate position that I have been doing this for a long time. Six years and even longer as a side hustle before that. So.

Jasmine Williams [00:08:07]:

And over that time I really built up a lot of expertise and niched down into specific areas like HR and SaaS. B2B SaaS like different specific types of businesses in their writing. So fortunately that helped, I think especially at first when AI was very new and not very, you know, very generic and it was kind of spitting out the same stuff or we didn't really know how to get it to do what we wanted it to do. So at that point especially a lot of my clients were. I was able to retain a good portion of my clients because they were looking. They weren't clients that just wanted content for content sake. They weren't just trying to put out a whole ton of volume or they do care about volume, but not at the sake of quality. So for them having content that is speaking to also a very educated buyer, like these are not companies that are reaching just the masses.

Jasmine Williams [00:09:07]:

Like they're trying to reach, you know, senior C suite level buyers. So your content needs to sound like that and it needs to be able to speak in that way. It needs to be able to use the terminology that your company uses that your industry uses in not in a 101 way. So that was definitely an advantage I had. I think it. But there's also disadvantages also. The fact that I had so much experience also means that I was. I'm premium.

Jasmine Williams [00:09:35]:

Right. So when you have this tool that allows people to do a lot more, a lot faster and people are scaling back, it's like there are some clients I was able to retain, but there's some where they just let go all of their writers or they just had, you know, maybe they had four or five writers and now they only had one or two who are still at my level, but they just don't need as many of me as they used to. So it was definitely part of it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:01]:

Is like you understand how you're going to be way better than something like chatgpt.

Jasmine Williams [00:10:06]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:06]:

But sometimes there's also like the educating of the clients and they don't really know what the difference is going to be. Hopefully eventually they'll find out. But yeah, that's true. I have an idea here. Well, my producer had an idea here for a quick game.

Jasmine Williams [00:10:25]:

Okay.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:26]:

So she's a writer on our team and she had an idea that we have two ideas and one like title for it is written by ChatGPT and one's written by her.

Jasmine Williams [00:10:40]:

Okay.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:41]:

And want you to guess which one is which.

Jasmine Williams [00:10:44]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:45]:

And. And then we can go into that so first one is like, let's say we had this online knitting course. So the first title is transform your yarn into masterpieces. This course will teach you stunning patterns in just weeks.

Jasmine Williams [00:11:01]:

Okay.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:02]:

And the second one is this Christmas, give the gift of your creativity. Learn how to knit stunning sweaters in just seven days and surprise your friends and family with your knitting skills. Which one of those do you think is chatgpt?

Jasmine Williams [00:11:15]:

My. I think it's the first one just because I find ChatGPT has certain tells and transform is a word that comes up a lot, so that's my guess.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:29]:

Yep, you're right, it is. And. And yeah, so I'm gonna do the second one now. And I, I know or I have seen the, the tell word in, in this one as well, but let's, let's see if you catch that too.

Jasmine Williams [00:11:45]:

Okay.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:45]:

Second one is, let's say you're. You're selling a kind of sneakers that's going to help with back pain.

Jasmine Williams [00:11:51]:

Okay.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:52]:

So the first line is step into comfort. These sneakers are revolutionizing relief for back pain while pain free today. And then second is, is your back making you feel 100 years old? Walk 30 minutes a day in these sneakers and say goodbye to back pain.

Jasmine Williams [00:12:11]:

Yeah, again, I, I think it's number one, just the word revolutionizing.

Bryan McAnulty [00:12:16]:

Revolutionizing. Yep, that was it. Yeah. So I, I found. I'm not a copywriter myself, but I found, I mean, I work all the time with AI, so transform, revolutionizing, unlock, unleash all these words. I feel like you can't say them anymore even because how prevalent they are. And I feel like even just seeing some like, kind of like generic brand ads and they say like unlock or unleash or something in them. And it's at the point now that it's.

Bryan McAnulty [00:12:50]:

There's so much of it, I really feel like you can use those words. But. Yeah, I'm curious what else you think about that.

Jasmine Williams [00:12:57]:

Yeah, I mean, I do use AI as a part of my ideation and research processes. And I think because I use it now, I know what it sounds like. So I'm always kind of trying to make sure that if I see it then I use it as the starting point to then inspire my own, my own writing and my own point of view. But that is the thing, I think with AI, if we're all using it, then we're all going to sound the same. And especially if you're not tailoring it enough to your brand so you're just not going to stand out. And that's A huge part of successful marketing. So.

Bryan McAnulty [00:13:45]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder if it'll even get to the point that it will be an advantage to not use. I mean, AI will probably get better in some ways at writing things, but I wonder if it'll be an advantage to not use AI no matter how bad you are at writing, just because that will help it stand out. It's like, wow, this. I'm subscribed to this person's email list and they're just a bad writer. They just are not good.

Jasmine Williams [00:14:09]:

They.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:10]:

They spell things wrong even. And it just. It's kind of hard to understand them sometimes, but I think they've got something there.

Jasmine Williams [00:14:16]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:17]:

Versus the newsletter of somebody who, like, uses ChatGPT. For each newsletter it says, I want a newsletter about this. And it's like, unlock new abilities or whatever in the subject line.

Jasmine Williams [00:14:28]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:31]:

Yeah. Interesting. So one of the like approaches that, that we have to AI and that I tried to inspire or impress upon creators is not using it to like write the thing for you, but using it as a partner to help you get that thing out of your head and onto the paper or the page or whatever it is of the content you're trying to create. And so in Heights Platform, like, we're not going to create the lesson or the copy of it for you, but we have a lesson review feature. So you can write in your text for your lesson, you can upload your video. And then Heights AI goes and reviews that instead of telling you what to write, it says like, hey, here's some questions that people might ask you. Like your students might ask you based on the content that you have so far. Here's some potential action items you might want to add.

Bryan McAnulty [00:15:22]:

Here's some other ideas of how you could expand this and it kind of helps you with it rather than doing it for you.

Jasmine Williams [00:15:30]:

Yeah, I think that's the best approach to take with AI. Like, I find too what happened over the course of AI and especially as a writer, as I was working with clients that also had me writing about AI, so it started to get really meta. And I do feel like that is. That is the best approach is to use it as a guide. Use it as a way to kind of like volley back and forth. Like just maybe put in, it's like, what do you think? Like, I often use it when I'm making like plans or strategies or just work back kind of like schedules. So I might be like, this is what I'm trying to create. Like, what questions do you have for me? What Things do you think I should include? Include.

Jasmine Williams [00:16:10]:

And then it would give me some questions on like, okay, this is great. So I find it just helps me get started and when I feel a little bit stuck on maybe a pretty meaty task. But yeah, I think when you just sort of plug, have it be like, write this for me, then that's when you get the generic output.

Bryan McAnulty [00:16:31]:

Yeah, yeah. So I guess the last thing like on AI is what else would you say? Like, do you believe or maybe other than we haven't talked about the actual tools that you use. But like, other than ChatGPT, like, are there any specific AI tools that you use or that you've tried to integrate in your process in some way?

Jasmine Williams [00:16:58]:

Yeah, I mean, I've tried other writing AI tools. Like I tried writer AI and it was okay. It was actually, I think, yeah, I believe I was writing an article about Rytr. So I had to use the software in order to write about it and really give my feelings experience around it. At the time, I found it didn't quite work for me just because what I was getting, I think like, what people struggle with a lot sometimes with AI is that you end up having to kind of keep inputting and inputting and. But a lot of times they're like, okay, well maybe I should have just done it myself because this editing revision process, it's getting a little out of hand. But no, I think truly, really, ChatGPT is the main AI tool that I've used and gotten pretty comfortable with. I know there's a lot out there for all types of media and I know that people are making custom GPTs, which are cool.

Jasmine Williams [00:17:57]:

I've played around with a couple of those, but. But yeah, that's still just for me. ChatGPT is the go to.

Bryan McAnulty [00:18:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. So we also saw you mentioned on your Instagram that you're working on something new. Can we get into that or hear a little bit more about that of what you're working on now in your business?

Jasmine Williams [00:18:21]:

Absolutely. So something that I was doing for about a year was running these virtual coworking sessions. So I would just open up a zoom room, play some lo fi music and invite people to come work with me. Because I found that I was feeling very. Just a little bit lonely working from home, just missing that kind of routine and structure. Also found, like last year I put up a story on my Instagram around, you know, would people be interested in doing like a meetup or a co working meetup? And I got so many responses and at the time I was just like, oh, this is a little overwhelming. I don't think I can really plan something in person. But let me start with something virtual and go from there.

Jasmine Williams [00:19:08]:

So that's what I did. I just kind of whipped up a little event page and started promoting it. And it kind of grew from there organically. So I was doing it like two to three times a week because it was great. I could do my own work and then have other people join me too. And I'd keep it kind of structured as well. So it's not just like an open room, like we take breaks and I really try to help people connect with other people. And it was something that I always felt like had the potential to be something more, but I just wasn't sure exactly what to do or when to do it.

Jasmine Williams [00:19:44]:

And something kind of clicked, I'd say this fall where I was really thinking about the next phase of my business journey, especially having worked as a writer, as a solo consultant for so many years. And I was just craving something different. And something kind of told me, you know, like I think, I think it's time to really pursue this idea and really flesh it out. So that's really what I am working on right now. So it's a virtual co working community for creatives. It will have virtual co working sessions but also have like an online portal component bringing in some of my courses that I ran in the past around freelancing and marketing and just integrating a lot of basically the different parts of my brain because I find like a lot of people know me now for my copywriting and also for my freelancing resources and helping people there. But I've also been always a very type a person and very organized and have lots of systems and processes. And then this would be a space too to bring that in where I can create these co working sessions and challenges and things to really help people make progress on their goals.

Jasmine Williams [00:20:59]:

I also did a coaching program as well to learn about how to motivate people and help them accomplish their goals. So kind of unintentionally it's turned into kind of a way to synthesize all these different little things that I was doing on the side, all these kind of side quests and put it into one place. So it's pre launch right now. The platform is built and the website's built, but I still want to beta test it and invite some friends to kind of check it out before I really start pushing it and launching it. But, but yeah, that is the, the new business project that I'M working on.

Bryan McAnulty [00:21:35]:

Yeah, I think one of the really cool things about creating online, and I probably say this in so many podcast episodes, is that like, you don't have to say, oh, I'm going to be a course creator or I'm going to be a consultant. Like you can change the way that you offer your business. And there's so many different models. It's not like, oh, you have to have this model or else you can't be successful. Like you can be successful in any of them. So finding the one that works for you and feels like it, it fits the things you're trying to do is, is really important and is also like something you don't have to figure out, maybe can't even figure out right away. It takes time to kind of get that all together and you can always change it. So yeah, that sounds good.

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:19]:

I'm curious as far as like helping people to their goals. Is it more of like getting them to have like the motivation or habit to be like productive? Or is it more like getting clients like what, what are the, the kind of goals that you're trying to help with specifically?

Jasmine Williams [00:22:38]:

Yeah, I think the primary goal is productivity. Like when I was doing initial market research for this project, that was the number one thing. Like when I asked people like, what do you want help with? Is it, is it work, getting more work done? Are you feeling disconnected from your community? Are you feeling just isolated? And the big thing was productivity. A lot of people were saying, you know, I'm working from home especially and I speak to creatives or targeting creatives because I am one. And I understand that feeling of just trying to be a creative person. But when you don't have anybody to bounce ideas off of or just anybody really around to work alongside besides maybe a client, then it just starts. It the, your productivity or motivation can start to wane. It can be very, very hard to kind of keep the same level of motivation day in, day out.

Jasmine Williams [00:23:36]:

And that's what I heard a lot, especially from other writers and people where it was like, yeah, some days like I'm good and other days it's like I get to 3, 4pm and I don't know what happen. So the big thing is productivity. That's why the co working and accountability challenges are kind of the thing that I think will be the draw, but kind of, I think it's one of those things too where I want people to come for those productivity boosts and to build a structure, build the habit. But also you're around like minded people And I want to also facilitate those connections of those communities. Because at least for me, when I first started, I was a member of a physical co working space and that was a huge part of my growth. And just, I'd say probably just health as a, as a business owner, just knowing that I had a space to go to where I would see people that get me, that I could, that we could collaborate on things, that we could refer each other to things in a way that didn't feel forced. And that is something that I want to try to recreate in a way is that feeling of this is your go to space. Even if it's a virtual space where you can get to see people that you, that you like, that you connect with, you work together, you maybe actually work together and collaborate.

Jasmine Williams [00:24:58]:

But yeah, you're getting more stuff done. But it doesn't feel so. Yeah, it doesn't feel so forced.

Bryan McAnulty [00:25:04]:

Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. So in the journey of building this so far, any, like, unexpected challenges or lessons you would share with people or maybe even things that like, went well or ideas that you had that you think others should try as well?

Jasmine Williams [00:25:22]:

Yeah, I think I just, I grossly underestimated how much work it would be. I kind of. Because I was running this so casually for so long or I guess like a year, which felt long, and that was just like a landing page and the zoom integration and that's it. But to really turn it into a paid offering, like, I really, like, I worked with a friend who's a really talented web designer and somebody who also specialize in building community spaces as well. So like, we're just working on the branding and the website design and like just thinking of all the different, like what are, what are the different spaces? Like, how are we telling people, like, what happens when they get in there? Like all these little questions that I was like, oh, wow, this is actually quite an undertaking. So that was definitely a big challenge where I was just like, oh, this is just a lot of work. And I was trying to. And I'm still like, I have some.

Jasmine Williams [00:26:22]:

I did scale back on my freelancing work, but I still had some freelance obligations as well and other work commitments and then building this website. And then I was also trying to keep marketing and talking about it. So trying to keep all those plates spinning was very hard. And eventually I had to just focus on, let's finish this, get, get this build done. And then I will start really focusing on marketing and promoting it and nurturing it in that way. So I'd say That's been. That's been the hardest thing where I was just like, oh, this is. There's a lot of things that I didn't quite consider when I first thought of it.

Jasmine Williams [00:27:01]:

But I think, honestly, I have a friend who has a newsletter, and the bottom of her newsletter says, like, powered by delusion and chai lattes. And I think about that because I do think you need a little bit of delusion sometimes to start a business, because I think sometimes if you actually knew how hard it would be, you probably wouldn't do it. So I think in a way, I'm.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:23]:

Kind of glad that I tell people, like, you should. You know, it doesn't. If it's not, like, your biggest passion in the world, like, and you. And you don't know what that passion is, then it's okay to move forward with something.

Jasmine Williams [00:27:35]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:35]:

But you should kind of like what you're doing, and you should also kind of feel good about, like, making a positive impact with what you're doing, because otherwise then you'd have to be really, like, delusional because of just how much effort you have to put into it. So. Yeah, I. I agree. That's a. That's really important. Yeah. Something that you mentioned, though, I think you really approached it in the right way because I've unfortunately seen so many people who start building the thing and they realize, okay, this is a huge undertaking, but they do that before they ever did, like, some kind of.

Bryan McAnulty [00:28:11]:

More like, easy to set up. Just like, let's try this out.

Jasmine Williams [00:28:14]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:28:15]:

Experience, like, what you did. And so they don't have the knowledge yet of, like, what do their potential customers actually want and all that. And they're kind of stuck building something for so long that, number one, maybe they don't have any way to get any revenue yet. And then when they finally do, then sometimes it's like, back to the drawing board, if they even get it out and, like, can sustain themselves enough to get it launched, because then they don't really know what their customers want. So I think that you were doing it for, like, a year in a less organized and less formal way. Really helps that now when you have to figure out, oh, actually, you've got to communicate all these different things and have all these different processes. Now at least you're pretty clear on, like, what you're building towards and you know that there's a market for it.

Jasmine Williams [00:29:00]:

Yeah, that's true. That is true. I'm glad. I just. I just went for it. I think that's a lesson for Anybody where it's like, the easiest way to just test something or if you have an idea, just put it out there is great because, yeah, I had. I ran those sessions. I had quite a few people say, you know, like, I would actually pay for this if you decided to do it.

Jasmine Williams [00:29:22]:

So I knew I had, like. And of course, we'll see what happens. But I knew that people were liking it. It was growing organically, People were finding value in it, and I think that's the most important part, or a very important part, at least.

Bryan McAnulty [00:29:37]:

Yeah. Yeah, it sounds great. So let's see. I mean, I think that that all sounds good. Anything else that you want to mention about, like, the community or any other advice for somebody who's building, like, a community kind of focused idea right now, Man.

Jasmine Williams [00:29:54]:

I think, yeah, I guess it's cliche, but. No. Know your why. But it also, I think, gets super clear on. On your audience and. And what they want. And remember, it's. It's for.

Jasmine Williams [00:30:08]:

For them. Like, I think too, like, I've done, like, I did a market research survey, but then I also did some. Some calls with, like, one person in particular who I saw was using a similar app to something that. That I'm. To the. The community that I'm building. So I just. And she's a friend as well, so I DM'd her being like, can we hop on a call? I'd just love to talk more about, like, how you found it and all of those things, and just being able to show her and be like, you know, what are you drawn to? And seeing how, of course everybody is drawn to something different.

Jasmine Williams [00:30:41]:

Like, there's kind of six core features with this platform or business that I'm building. And that's intentional because I do feel like probably everybody will have their top three. Probably not all six will be like, you know, I'm here for this. It's probably like, I'm really here for these two things, and the rest are kind of bonus. But in showing her that I was able to see, like, okay, these are her top three. And even if I look at it myself, I'm like, well, probably I would have a different top three, but I'm, you know, depending on where you're at and your stage of your life, it's, yeah, it's. It's different. So I think, yeah, you just have to be clear.

Jasmine Williams [00:31:23]:

And I think talking to people is a. My advice as well, because like you said, a lot of people get so caught up in their idea and building something and making it really cool that they forget to actually talk to people and see if they would actually like it. And that's something because I have a coaching background and would do some business coaching as well. Like I would always tell the people that I coach just like, learn to be okay with no. If anything, learn to like no, because that means that you're getting feedback and you're getting closer to a yes. But if you're so scared to actually talk to people and get people to have people say this isn't for me, then it's only going to hurt more the more you put into it. And then you launch and it's crickets. So, yeah, I'd say probably outside of Know your why know your audience? The basic things.

Jasmine Williams [00:32:16]:

I mean this is a basic thing too, but it is a critical step that I see so many people forsake Skip, which is like when you see people who are potentially your target market, maybe they're in a community that's similar to what you want to build or they just seem to have that the stroke they're struggling with the same things that you're trying to solve. Reach out and just be like, hey, would you be down to talk for 20 minutes? A lot of people do have 20 minutes and they'll even appreciate being getting that kind of inside scoop and it makes them feel like a part of the process a bit more. So yeah, just don't be afraid to talk to people.

Bryan McAnulty [00:32:53]:

Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. And what you were sharing there, it reminded me of my video editor was kind of planning some different angles of how we could make some video. We were planning about Heights platform and the one idea he had was for, well, what if the creator has this online course and they just have like one star reviews and then like they use heights platform and helps them fix it and now they have all these happy customers. And we decided against this idea because that's actually a great problem to have that you have one star reviews because you got sales, you got the product out there and you got feedback. And so now in a lot of cases, I think there might be some times when you're like, I don't know what to do. But I think in a lot of cases you can kind of find out exactly what to do as a next step. There's versus when you start and you haven't really launched it or you just launched it, but you have no sales, no feedback, but. And an unhappy customer that left you a one star review.

Bryan McAnulty [00:33:55]:

Like that is actually way more valuable than just not hearing anything at all, 100%. So one of the things I like to do on the show is have every guest ask a question to our audience. So if you could ask our audience anything, whether something you're curious about or just kind of want to get people thinking about, what would that be?

Jasmine Williams [00:34:16]:

Yeah, I think. I mean, we've talked about a lot of different things. I think to kind of bring it back to AI a little bit. I would be curious about how people are using AI in creative ways. I mean, recently I went to an SEO conference and one of the talks was about using the prompt of shower thoughts to come up with interesting subject lines. So you'd ask ChatGPT, can you come up with a shower thought about X? And it would just come up with a little more quirky and interesting subject lines than if you just asked it to write a subject line.

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:54]:

Yeah, it's when you ask it to, like, be a copywriter, that's when you get like the worst from it, kind of. It seems like.

Jasmine Williams [00:35:01]:

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I'd be curious if people have like creative prompts or just creative outside of the box ways of using AI, that might be a bit unexpected. So, yeah, that's what I would be curious about.

Bryan McAnulty [00:35:16]:

Yeah, that's a great question. And before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Jasmine Williams [00:35:22]:

Yeah, I mean, definitely. Asminwilliams media on Instagram and LinkedIn. My new business was thereeach club, so that's the IG handle for that and the URL is the same as well. But yeah, I would say definitely follow me at Jasmin Williams Media for sure, because I'll be posting all about what I'm up to and new things that are happening with my business and just what I'm doing so well.

Bryan McAnulty [00:35:52]:

Jasmine, thanks so much for coming on the show again.

Jasmine Williams [00:35:54]:

Amazing. Thank you so much for having me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:35:56]:

I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 creators@creator climb.com. if you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, check out The Heights Platform YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9am US Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our [email protected] until then, keep learning and I'll see you in the next episode.