Bryan McAnulty [00:00:00]: If you've ever felt like you're doing everything in your business and you still can't take a break, this episode is for you. Today we're talking with Emily Brownlaw, the founder and CEO of Worth of Work, a company that's revolutionizing how small businesses build teams and create workplaces that people actually want to be a part of. Emily is a military spouse, mom, and entrepreneur who built her business after experiencing firsthand the lack of work life balance in traditional corporate roles. Emily is on a mission to help business owners like you build teams, delegate without guilt, and scale without burning out.

Emily Bronaugh [00:00:30]: It doesn't have to be right now. If you just start before you're ready, doing one or two things here and there as you want to or as your life allows you to, then when you are ready to pull the trigger, when you do feel like, okay, this would be a good time to bring somebody on and dedicate some time to having some one on one meetings to teach somebody how I do things or how I would like them to do things.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:55]: Today, she's going to show you what it takes to grow a small business beyond yourself. How to hire the right people, build systems, and lead in a way that is filling for everyone involved. If you want more freedom, more time, and a team that's committed to your mission, stay tuned. This episode will show you how to get there. Welcome to the Creator's Adventure, where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. Hey everyone, I'm Brian McNulty, the founder of Pipes Platform. Let's get into it. Hey, Emily.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:27]: Welcome to the show.

Emily Bronaugh [00:01:28]: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:31]: Yeah. So what would you say is the biggest thing that either you did or are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?

Emily Bronaugh [00:01:39]: Yes, very good question. So the biggest thing I think is that I am always open to creative possibilities and understand that there's always a solution to every problem. And I think that's. That's something I try to impart on those I speak with as well. And just that belief and that curiosity has helped me not have to settle when I feel like something feels wonky or it's not aligned with, with what I want to be happening in my world. So. So really that belief, I think if I have to distill it down to one thing, it would be that, yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:02:19]: I think that's really important. I think entrepreneurs, maybe we sometimes naturally have that a little bit more, but at the same time, I've also even realized myself where there's times you get busy, there's times things happen.

Emily Bronaugh [00:02:33]: Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:02:33]: And you separate from that a little bit. And you've got to remember, how can I make sure this is the way that I want so I can do things the way that I want?

Emily Bronaugh [00:02:41]: Yeah. And I, I think when we would classify ourselves as a creative person, that creativity is often in like one avenue of our lives. And so not settling for being creative, being creative just in that one area where it comes most naturally to us. But kind of seeing that, like even in places where it's seems very cut and dry or black and white, or this is how things have always been done, or this is what my coach told me to do. I think seeing it in those places as well is really important and has really, really helped me personally at least.

Bryan McAnulty [00:03:22]: Yeah. So we're going to hopefully help our audience here today understand, like when to hire help as a small business owner and like how to delegate effectively. But to get started with that, what's one outdated workplace belief you're on a mission to replace? And what should we replace it with?

Emily Bronaugh [00:03:42]: Yeah, I think the best way to kind of give context to what I think is outdated and what we can collectively work on shifting is to give a little bit of context. So I am a military spouse and I had my son and then three weeks later my husband deployed. And so throughout my son's life, I have had to balance being ambitious with my husband's career with single parenting very often. And throughout all of that, I was trying to balance having a nine to five and came across multiple instances of bosses that just did not know what to do with me and didn't know what to do with someone who couldn't just call a grandma to go pick up their kid when they had a fever, that sort of thing. And so I really started to see like that work and the way we understand, especially pre Covid was not working for moms. And at that same time I was thinking, okay, if this is not working for me, I'm gonna go into entrepreneurship. I have this idea. I think I could be really good at this.

Emily Bronaugh [00:04:54]: And so I started, you know, taking courses, hiring coaches, taking some master's level graduate courses as well, and really trying to understand the environment. And while I was doing that, I was seeing a lot of people in the masterminds I was with and different friends. I was all get to this point of, okay, I see how this could work for the short term with just me especially working part time managing my children. But then what like, I, I want to make an impact I don't want to just impact the five people that I can manage in the limited amount of hours in a day that I have. And so I have kind of been converging those two ideas of seeing that employers have. There's room for some education there around how to be a good leader, how to be a good employer, with also the need of, like, okay, but what the. What are the logistics of doing that? Like, how. How do I actually hire somebody? Because it's very overwhelming.

Emily Bronaugh [00:05:58]: And so my perspective to your aunt, to answer your question, really comes from a very empathetic place, a very realistic place, and very much like a psychological background. I'm obsessed with organizational psychology and, like, following Adam Grant and these type of people. And so what I've learned from all of these perspectives and all of my experiences is that very often us as entrepreneurs kind of show up with the attitude of, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm very powerful, I'm so creative, I can do anything. And we're fed all of those really empowering statements, which is great and needed. But sometimes that can relay into an attitude of, I am better than someone who would be a team member. I am better than someone who is just an employee in quotes, right? And I think that, unfortunately, whether it's subconscious and purposeful or not, that attitude really, I believe, has created this environment where we, our industry, like on online small businesses, have a lot of people who kind of overlook the need to learn these skill sets and learn how to be a good boss and learn how to hire, well, hire people that are really good fit for us because we just assume we have good intentions. I'm a business owner, and I can do this. So really, the outdated belief that I would want to shift is that the team member that you're bringing on with you is their sole purpose is to serve you and serve only what your ideas are.

Emily Bronaugh [00:07:49]: What I would love to replace that with is more of a collective mindset, so more of a humility around. I am hiring a team member because I need help because I have this mission and this impact that I want to create that I can't do on my own. And so with humility, I'm asking somebody who may be better at something than I am to come and help me. And then together, we can collaborate and create something that would be better than anything I could dream up on my own. So I know that was really long winded.

Bryan McAnulty [00:08:31]: That was good because it got me thinking that also, like, I can picture entrepreneurs and myself in some ways all. All different ways of how this can be looked at of hiring somebody. And some, some people say, oh, you gotta hire somebody who's better at the things that you're not good at so you can have them help on those things. You focus on your real true skills. But then other, other times I've heard people talk about, oh well, I tried hiring somebody and they're not quite as good as I am. So it didn't work out. It's, I should just do it myself. And I think part of it is realizing also that it's just hiring anybody.

Bryan McAnulty [00:09:09]: It's just they are different, they're different than you. And so maybe they're better at you better than you at some things, maybe they're worse than you at sometimes some things, but they are different. And realizing that and being able to work with that. And I like how you said of like the having the humility and realizing that they are here to help you achieve this greater mission.

Emily Bronaugh [00:09:30]: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so funny because what I've seen over and over again are entrepreneurs who have really great, really great missions, really great ideas. They are serving their clients very, very well. And then throughout the hiring process they convey those intentions, they speak to their values, they really talk about like being growth minded and all of these things. So they end up hiring really, really great people. But then it's like the, the for whatever reason, the attitude shifts and then you get into the day to day weeds of things and they're not necessarily living day to day the way that they were saying that they would in the hiring process. And it, I don't think it's nefarious. I don't think people are doing it on purpose.

Emily Bronaugh [00:10:23]: But I do think that there is just a lack of knowledge. Know how, of how. Okay, how on a day to day basis do I do this? How do I do this? Well, how do I lead you? Well, how do I motivate you? And I, and I think part of it is just a lapse or, or a gap in education on it. Right. Because I think a lot of the, the consulting that happens in this sphere in leadership is very often, at least when I thought of it, I thought of like your typical, like corporate, you have to pay millions of dollars in order to get a management consultant to come in. And what small business owner can afford like we. Nobody can afford that in this industry. Right.

Emily Bronaugh [00:11:07]: That's not realistic. And so I think it's just bringing that same information, bringing that psychology down here into the real world, for lack of a better way to say it into real small business owners who have courses and are looking for more time freedom and make it more approachable and relatable. I think so. I don't think it's a nefarious thing, but I just think it's a lack of, like, educational resources.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:41]: Yeah, yeah. I want to get more into. Before we go into like, detail about how to do all this, I guess to get more into like, the, the work life balance and like, how this looked for you starting out and how you had to start to discover this yourself. Because I think that if somebody, if, if somebody came to an entrepreneur and said, oh, I'm going to teach you about how to delegate to somebody else or, or hire a team or anything like this, I could see that there could be skepticism where the entrepreneur might say, okay, well, you don't understand how my life is because I have these different constraints or these things that, like, I just can't do this the same as somebody else who has all the time in the world. And so I think you're in a really relatable situation because single parenting, your partner, being deployed, going through like, Covid career changes, all these different things. You did definitely have to deal with that in like, not a way that's like, common or like, I think you can relate to those entrepreneurs. So how, how did you start off in, in learning that and figuring out, well, how am I going to delegate? And like, what is work life balance even going to look like?

Emily Bronaugh [00:12:54]: Yeah, I love this question. So I've already kind of talked about my personal experience, but I've. I've been that person where I feel like I'm that person now. To be completely honest, my husband's going through a master's degree and he's working nights and like, so it's up to me right now to pick up that slack. And my son is 8, so that's not the same as having an infant. But there are always those life periods where things are not going to allow you to just for eight hours a day, sit and focus, knock, knock, work out and move your business forward. So I have a few, like, practical pieces of advice which I'll say in a moment, but I think the misconception is that delegating has to be an entirely separate job. Or if, if you are agreeing to take on help, then you are no longer going to primarily be working with clients or working to market yourself or what.

Emily Bronaugh [00:14:07]: Whatever the case may be, there is this just such a negative connotation around, oh, I'm a boss now, or I've Got to manage these people and, and it doesn't have to be that way at all. I think that that attitude comes from what we were talking about earlier. So just taking that misconception out of it where like if, if you have crystal clear, a crystal clear goal and if you know specifically what help you need and then very slowly, it doesn't have to be all at once, have to be right now, if you just start before you're ready, doing one or two things here and there as you want to or as your life allows you to, then when you are ready to pull the trigger, when you do feel like, okay, this would be a good time to bring somebody on and dedicate some time to having some one on one meetings to teach somebody how I do things or how I would like them to do things, then you can't, you can pull that trigger. So really starting before you're ready. But one of the freebies that I have is called a whom to hire identifier. Because what I really want you to start to do, like I said before you're ready is understand I have all of these needs in my head. Like I could use help writing copy, I could use help making social media graphics. Like there are all these things that I don't want to do every single day that somebody else I think could do better than me.

Emily Bronaugh [00:15:37]: But I need to identify who exactly that person is going to be. Because when I know who that person is, then I can start to work backwards and say okay, more and just brainstorm again while you're at lunch or while you're on a walk or whatever. It doesn't have to be formal and take a lot of time, but just brainstorm. Like what are the actual tasks that I would have them do? What kind of attitude do I want them to have? What values do I want them? Like walk through all of those things. The other like really tangible piece of advice that I have is if your audience have not yet done needle movers, I really recommend that exercise. So for anybody who doesn't know, needle movers are just three key activities that you know for a fact, help drive your business and only focus on those activities, especially if your time is constrained. And that has been game changing for me every single day. When I wake up and I look at my to do list, I ask myself, is this going to distract me from the ultimate goal that I have or is this something that I know is going to drive forward and that has saved me so much time and I'm able to focus so much more? More with better results.

Emily Bronaugh [00:16:56]: So again, long winded. But all of that to say it does not have to be this big massive lift. Because I can't do a big massive lift either. And I never have been able to. I just start before I'm ready and over time I end up with this big pile of information that then I'm able to implement with.

Bryan McAnulty [00:17:20]: Yeah. So I think many people actually not only do they not start before they're ready, but they actually wait too long because they're afraid or unsure about how to hire somebody. So what would you say is like the first signs that somebody kind of is ready to make that first hire? Even if it's just like a freelancer or contractor.

Emily Bronaugh [00:17:38]: Yeah. I think the only two things that you need is a budget. It doesn't have to be a big budget. And like you said, if you just want to start with the freelancer, that's great. I often will recommend people just start with a project. Like if you've literally never hired anybody before, I would start, find a project that you need done just one time and then go on upwork and hire for that time. Limited project, so you have your limited budget, you know what the end result needs to be and that if nothing else just gets your feet wet with understanding what this process could look like. So that's the first thing is a budget.

Emily Bronaugh [00:18:18]: And then the other thing is a willingness to learn how to do these things because it really is something where until you do it, you're not, you're gonna know it on paper. And of course like I and I know you wanna give them all of the tools possible to be able to do it, but until you actually do it, there's gonna be muscle memory that you just have to build. But so the willingness, just the willingness to learn. And so I always start, whether it's like a one on one client or in my course, as I know is popular is we always start with the mindset stuff because until you can wrap your head around and honestly get your nervous system on board with the idea that you're going to be working with another human being, which can feel very overwhelming, you're, you're not going to take this action steps. So that, that's really it. But once you have those two things, you take the action steps. It's like a step by step process. Once you understand what to do, it's pretty straightforward.

Emily Bronaugh [00:19:23]: So.

Bryan McAnulty [00:19:23]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. Because I think it definitely is a skill to hire and to learn how to delegate properly. And I've talked to Entrepreneurs who were fairly successful entrepreneurs who, like, one example, he had, like, very quickly had like, 10 to 30 people on his team that he had hired, but was, like, communicating to me about how he was frustrated that the team, like, wasn't yet, like, just knowing how to do everything. And he didn't really have the mindset that it is still some investment that they have. They have to learn and they have to. It's going to take a little bit of time before they start really making that kind of impact that you're hoping it's not just like, okay, insert person here, and now it's immediate. So for somebody who says, okay, I'm gonna take the first step here and try out this idea of like, just a quick project on, like, upwork or fiverr.

Bryan McAnulty [00:20:19]: What are some common mistakes that people make when they first try that and how can they avoid them?

Emily Bronaugh [00:20:25]: Okay. Such good. Yes, Such a good question. Okay. Common mistake. So not. I have heard the advice that you should just hire somebody as fast as possible. Like, when you're an entrepreneur, you want to get to a place where you can afford to hire somebody, and then you want to hire somebody as soon as you can so that you can have the time freedom that you've been wanting.

Emily Bronaugh [00:20:48]: And I think that that is well intended. Obviously, yes, a lot. Most of us start these businesses so that we can have some time freedom, but that is going to bite you in the butt. So if you will spend an extra week, an extra two weeks to go through a hiring process where, you know, on the other end of it, I'm going to get somebody who, like we talked about before, could actually do this better than I could or would enjoy doing this more than I would enjoy doing it and can do it well, that is going to serve you infinitely longer than it would if you just hire somebody who has the technical skill, skill because it's listed on their resume, and then you end up having to go behind them or y' all end up clashing personalities or something like that. So don't. Don't hire too quickly. The other thing is to not give enough detail in your job description. So very often I'm just scrolling through upwork just to kind of see, like, what are people doing out there, what's going.

Emily Bronaugh [00:21:54]: What. What's on going. The vibe. And so many times I will see job descriptions that do not inform the applicant of the kind of organization you are, the kind of pay that you would want to give them, the kind of experience you're looking like, just all of less lacking so much information. So there are some key things in a job description that you should have as well. And then another thing is not having realistic expectations on pay versus experience or what you're asking for. So I believe in creative solutions and so, but I also believe in paying people a reasonable rate as well. So do your research on what are industry norms, what are standards? If I don't want to pay that, like maybe the median, like industry norm for whatever you're hiring for, that's totally fine.

Emily Bronaugh [00:22:57]: But then we need to come up with a creative solution in. Okay, do we need to bring your expectations down a little bit? Do we need to hire for a smaller project? Like, do we need to go through a, instead of maybe going through an agency, do we do something a little more diy, that sort of thing? So I think setting those, those expectations is also really, really key.

Bryan McAnulty [00:23:19]: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So for the entrepreneur who's like used to just doing everything themselves, how can they start to build systems to be able to support a team even if they don't have one yet?

Emily Bronaugh [00:23:33]: Yes. Okay, so this is one of my favorite things that I love talking about are like task management systems. And I believe you use ClickUp if I'm correct.

Bryan McAnulty [00:23:45]: Yes.

Emily Bronaugh [00:23:45]: So ClickUp is my favorite. I'm a certified ClickUp expert because it is, it has so many features and it is so beneficial if you set it up properly for yourself, if you set it up in a way that will allow you to take your hands off of workflows, for example. So that is really where I would start. I would start with the free version. Whether you use ClickUp or Sonar or whatever. To be honest, it doesn't really matter. But making sure that. And this is one of the examples of, of that I was kind of alluding to before, of starting before you're ready, so that when you hire somebody, your task management system is set up so that they can just come in and know what instructions are, kind of know what your workflow expectations are.

Emily Bronaugh [00:24:38]: But I really would take the time to evaluate what repeatable processes am I already doing? And you can like record your screen, do a loom or zoom video recording the process that you already do just while you're doing it, so it doesn't take any extra time. And then you can either go back and review it on your own, or you can also feed that through an AI to look at the video and basically create a standard operating procedure for, from that video recording. So you have step by step instructions that now somebody can come behind you and see. And the really great thing about ClickUp is if you put those step by step instructions, like you copy paste it basically or you upload a Excel file, it can create those that workflow as tasks for you. So there are a lot of different ways to automate this so that you're not seeing spending a bunch of extra time, but you're still creating an environment where somebody can come in and they know right off the bat, like, first I do this and then I do this and then I do this and then from there you can expand. ClickUp is great because it does have videos and documents and communication is really important. I think finding a solution where you can assign tasks and communicate about those tasks in the same place. I see far too many people trying to do tasks over here and then use Slack for communication, that causes a lot of balls to be dropped.

Emily Bronaugh [00:26:12]: So there are a ton of little different things like that that you can do. But whatever you do have something, have some sort of tool that allows you to communicate what you need done with the expectations around that.

Bryan McAnulty [00:26:30]: Yeah, yeah. I think most entrepreneurs like everything's in your head and you've got to find a way to get that out of your head and into some kind of information that somebody else is able to see. And then when you have that, then as you said, like it's as simple as you can basically plug somebody in and they can see, oh, this is the next thing on the list, this is the next thing and they know what to do. And so it is like everybody says you have to be an effective communicator. Right. But it's, it's a way of understanding that communication is not just how you talk to somebody, but it's actually making sure you're documenting these processes and procedures that you have.

Emily Bronaugh [00:27:10]: Yes, that's such a good point. I also don't know if it is common knowledge because it's something that I'm obsessed with and just think about in my free time. So I don't know what's realistic for other people to know about. But you can hire whether it's ClickUp or Asana, you can go to maybe one of the projects is that you hire for is I need somebody to set up my ClickUp and it's a project, this is my budget, it's a one and done thing. But so you don't have to be the one to do this also. So if you give your requirements in my dream world, this is what I would love for somebody to be able to come in and help me do. They can do it. For you.

Emily Bronaugh [00:27:53]: So again, creative solutions where you don't have to be the one just dedicating all of your time to setting this up.

Bryan McAnulty [00:28:00]: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. Because I think maybe my personality as well, coming from like a design and software background, I don't mind setting that up and figuring that out of how is this workflow going to work. But definitely, I'm sure there's a lot of entrepreneurs where that is not the thing that really comes natural to them or that's not the thing that they want to be working on. So that's a perfect idea to actually just have hire somebody to help set that up for you and then you've got it. So even if entrepreneurs hire help, they sometimes or oftentimes struggle to be able to actually delegate effectively. So what would you offer as like tips to entrepreneurs to be able to delegate better?

Emily Bronaugh [00:28:45]: Delegate better. So the whom to hire identifier is a really great place to start. So that identifies it any. You don't have to do it through the that, but any way to, like you said, get your thoughts out on paper. This is what I do on a day to day basis. These are all of my tasks. Okay, which tasks do I hate doing that I, if I never had to do them again, I would be so thankful. Which tasks is too expensive for me to do? I could pay somebody so much less to do it so that I can free up my time to go do the really high value things like going on a podcast interview or things that only I can do as a CEO or what are things that I've been doing and I've been doing them okay, but I'm really not that great at it.

Emily Bronaugh [00:29:35]: Like it somebody else is way better at designing canva graphics than I am, for example. So identifying what those things are. And then like I said a second ago, identifying, okay, how have I been doing them? And communicating that through whatever platform that you have. I think is really, really key. And taking the time again is the theme here to evaluate. What are my expectations when somebody does this? How can I articulate extremely clearly what my expectations are? When do I need this turned around by? How often do I see them needing to do this task? When I say like design a graphic in this style, what exactly do I mean? I think delegating really requires expectations to be as clear as you possibly can. And you're not going to be great at it at first, especially if you've never done it before. But where I see the most friction from my clients or even people that I have worked for is when their expectation either does not meet reality because they've not collaborated or they've not articulated what their wants are out loud or.

Emily Bronaugh [00:30:56]: Sorry, lost my train of thought. But I was like, oh, that. That actually is a really, really big problem.

Bryan McAnulty [00:31:01]: Where the first one. I know exactly what you're saying. That, like, somebody thinks, oh, I need marketing help. Okay, I'm gonna hire you. Marketing help. Go do it. And, like, you have no actual tasks that you've assigned them. Maybe they don't know about your business, maybe they are an excellent marketer, but they don't actually understand your business.

Bryan McAnulty [00:31:21]: They don't actually understand its goals. And so then it just. It doesn't work out. So you have to recognize the reality is that in order for you to ensure you're really going to get value from this person that you hire, that it has to be clear to you what you want to actually ask them to do.

Emily Bronaugh [00:31:40]: Yes. And if this, I think, is where the mindset that I was talking about at the beginning comes into play. Because if you show up with, I'm the boss, it is my job to tell you what to do, then this is where those communication faux pas are going to happen, where they're not going to understand what you're asking. You're not going to be as clear as you think you're being. You're too vague all. All of those things. But if you show up with, hey, this is what I'm thinking. You are working in marketing, for example, and thinking about marketing more often and more than I am.

Emily Bronaugh [00:32:20]: What is you. What is your idea? How would you solve this person problem? And then that at least gives you a feedback loop where you can say, actually, no, I don't want to do it that way. That clarifies that I actually want it to be done this way. So creating the space to allow for conversation and not feel the pressure of, I have to have all the answers. I'm the boss. I've. I've got to know, and I've got to be able to. To dictate specific instructions all the time.

Emily Bronaugh [00:32:47]: That's not what. That's not what team building in 2025 is.

Bryan McAnulty [00:32:52]: Yeah, I think that's a really excellent point to. To recognize that, like, this whole process is completely imperfect. And, like, you don't have to know everything. And this communication is like, you're figuring that out together. Maybe, maybe you feel you kind of understand things and you're trying to communicate that to your teammate. Maybe the teammate, they don't get it. Right away. So you work through it and you figure it out and.

Bryan McAnulty [00:33:16]: Yeah, that's a lot of what it is. It's not. It's not like a program where it's like, yes or no, and it just goes and doesn't go. You've. You've got to communicate about it.

Emily Bronaugh [00:33:24]: Right, Absolutely. That's the humility of, like, I. I don't. Maybe. Maybe there's even a scenario where you're genuinely like, I know I need help with this. I don't know what kind of help I need, like, but I know I need help like you. You are humbly asking for support. That's all.

Emily Bronaugh [00:33:42]: Hiring somebody is, in my opinion. So that's. Yes, exactly.

Bryan McAnulty [00:33:48]: Yeah. All right. So one of the things I'd like to do on the show is have every guest ask a question to the audience. So if you could ask our audience anything, whether something you're curious about or just kind of want to get everybody thinking about, what would that be?

Emily Bronaugh [00:34:03]: Yeah. So something I am just curious in general with everybody is if you could wave a magic wand as a solopreneur and especially in the online course business, if you can wave a magic wand and have your hiring or leadership or team building problem solved, what would that be? What would. What would happen or what solve would the magic wand provide you?

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:35]: Yeah, that's excellent. I think that's a great thing to think about. All right, well, Emily, it was so great talking with you. Before we get going. Where else can people find you online?

Emily Bronaugh [00:34:43]: Yeah. So I'm primarily on Instagram at Emily Bronaugh. And that's B R O N A U G H for people listening. And then my website is worthofwork. Com.

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:56]: Awesome. Thanks so much.

Emily Bronaugh [00:34:57]: Thank you.