#62: Learn Her Method for Avoiding and Treating Burnout [with Mallory Rowan]
Welcome to The Creator's Adventure where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business.
When Mallory was 22, she built a global, multi-six figure e-commerce business on a student budget. She was scaling incredibly fast, but then it happened: she burned out.
She started losing her hair, and getting unexplainable rashes all over her, and she didn't even notice she had pneumonia until a doctor heard her trying to catch a breath.
Watch this interview to learn Mallory Rowan's secrets to avoid and effectively treat burnout in entrepreneurs.
Today Mallory Rowan helps entrepreneurs build without burnout: more specifically, she helps them skip the burnout entirely, work less but actually start earning more, and do it on their OWN terms.
Learn more about Mallory: https://malloryrowan.com/
Bryan McAnulty: Welcome to The Creator's Adventure, where we interview Creator's from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. Today's guest had a lot of success early on, but that came at the cost of extreme burnout. Mallory Rowan is going to show us how she overcame that burnout and how she helps others do the same.
Hey everyone. I'm Brian McNulty, the founder of Heights Platform. Let's get into it.
Hey everyone. We're here today with Mallory Rowan. When Mallory was 22, she built a global multi-six figure e-commerce business on a student budget. She was scaling incredibly fast, but then it happened. You burn out and she started losing her hair. She started getting unexplainable rashes. She didn't even notice that she had pneumonia until a doctor heard her trying to catch her breath.
Now she helps entrepreneurs build without burnout. More specifically, she helps them skip the burnout entirely, work less, but actually start earning more and do it on their own terms. She has been featured as a Shopify master Lululemon and legacy ambassador and one of United Way's people to know Mallory, welcome to the show.
Mallory Rowan: Thanks for having me.
Bryan McAnulty: Sure. So my first question for you is, what would you say is the biggest thing that you did or you are doing that's helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?
Mallory Rowan: I think for me is, you know, I kind of call it like the toddler question of, you know, little kids, they always ask us why about things.
Mm-hmm. And this like, why, why, why? I don't think we do that enough anymore. So for me it's really asking like why I'm choosing to do thi certain things, why certain goals even feel important to me at any given time. Or translating that. Into like, what does that actually mean, if that's like a better question for someone?
So why or what does that actually mean? So as an example, you know, people say, oh, I want financial freedom. Okay, well what does that actually mean for you? Because that can look really different from one person to the next. It could be 75 k, but. Picking up their kids from school for one person and feeling secure.
Somebody else could be making 2 million and not feeling that financial freedom. So really constantly asking myself like, are the goals that I'm chasing actually mine? Or is it something I think I'm supposed to want? Because it's so easy to fall into those traps, especially in this online space. Of course, Creator's coaches, all that.
We see so many versions of goals. But the loudest ones are always the like more and more and more. And so for me it's been stepping back. And figuring out like, what do I actually want? And then what's a way that I can approach it where I'm not gonna spend my whole life grinding with my head down to come out later because we don't actually know what's gonna happen later.
How can I actually enjoy it along the way too?
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah. I really like that. I, I like to think that way myself, and I think it's so powerful to constantly go back and, and ask that question to yourself because, Like I can see so many scenarios of like hear about this new marketing strategy or whatever it is, and you start working on that and then months go by and you think about why am I actually doing this?
Like, am I enjoying doing this? Is this actually making an impact to move the business forward? Is it accomplishing my goals? And that can really help you identify the things that you can potentially change or even drop out completely because it may not actually be the thing you wanna be doing.
Mallory Rowan: Totally.
And there's so many different tactics we see, and I think we all want this cheat sheet. It sounds really sexy, right? So we see somebody did this on TikTok and it really exploded, so maybe we can mimic that, or this person has a lot of success with email marketing, but I think it's really looking at, well, what are my own strengths?
What do I actually enjoy doing? Because that's what's always going to get us the best result, and that's probably what's getting those people the results on whatever platform they're on.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. Yeah, that's well said. I think. More than ever. There are so many things happening in social media and the world around us that yeah, it's, it's not only tempting to, to feel like you should try these things, but like, to some extent, it's great to be aware of all of that.
I think that the most important thing is to think about, well, what do you wanna be doing yourself? And like that, that thing like, would you also be doing it like 10 years from now? And focus on those things rather than worried about jumping to, to every next thing. It's fine to be aware of it, but it, it can be really easy to get caught jumping from every single thing that you hear to the next.
Mallory Rowan: Totally is that sparkly syndrome we all have, right?
Bryan McAnulty: Mm-hmm. Yep. Definitely. So before starting your current business, you previously built three other businesses, and by age 27, you'd reached the six figure level. Your first business was L V D Fitness. Can you tell us more about the early days of that?
What was the most challenging part? Starting a business at such a young age and. How did that experience kind of shape the entrepreneurial journey that you have?
Mallory Rowan: For sure. So I started my first business while I was still in post-secondary. It actually started in a class the year before we did a group project.
We came up with this like silly product I wasn't really passionate about and I kind of dragged my feet, the whole group project. So the next year they really encouraged us to work on businesses that we actually wanted to pursue, which was really. In hindsight, like so great of the school to be structured that way.
But that's what really led me to start a power lifting business because my training partner and I at the time we were kind of like the next generation of power lifters people pictured like the. Big bald tattooed, like big belied guys, and that's not really what power lifting was ever fully. But also not what it was becoming.
There was a lot of like minimalist people getting into power, lifting a lot of students. So we wanted a company that really represented us. So that was kind of what sparked it. And honestly, a lack of. Resources and budget. We had so many cool ideas for like these projects that would take so much research and development.
And for us, we were like, well, the easiest problem we can solve right now is the fact that our community doesn't have something that's connecting us all. As the sport was really growing at the time. And so we're like, you know what? We're gonna start with this lifestyle brand. We're gonna help athletes give back with every purchase.
And then from there we can always expand into those other projects. And we actually ended up just really running with that lifestyle brand because it was. You know, even though it felt like a small need, it had such an emotional tie to people that it really did grow as it was. So that was a really cool experience.
Also, not having any budget for anything as students really challenged us to take advantage of all of the digital tools or even we did a lot of event sponsorships or sh like having a booth at events and just getting really in on the grassroot level. And I think learning everything from. Every collection we would launch, right?
With an online business, especially being based out of Canada with things like shipping, there was a lot of kind of creative ideas that came just from a place of hitting obstacles. Shipping was really expensive, so we started launching bigger collections so that there was more things people could pick from, they could order with their friends.
And then, you know, offering a free shipping threshold, really looking at how can we, you know, take this thing that's kind of an obstacle and hurting us and actually use it for motivation to do something more creative. Yeah.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah, I, I like to talk about that a lot because I, I feel like this is something that I'm constantly having to think about myself in business that like mm-hmm.
We're not a massive company. We're, we're not taking any, any funding or anything like that. And I don't plan to, so like we have these constraints that we have to work within and how can we use those in a creative way to have an advantage over competitors or, or others. In that sense. So I think that's awesome advice to focus on.
How can you use those constraints or, or what seems like a problem to actually your advantage?
Mallory Rowan: Totally. I think small businesses fall into this trap of trying to pretend to look big. But when we're dealing with companies like an Amazon or, you know, even you have major, like big, big competitors, we're just, it's so hard to try to fake being that size when there's like crazy amount of investment in those companies.
So instead it's like, well, let's lean into the small business side. Let's share our more personal story. Right? Let's share a founder story. I had someone that. You know, had a candle business and she's like, I put this pressure on myself that the second there's an order I need to go make the candle and ship it out because I'm trying to compete with the Amazons of the world.
And I'm like, well, you know, if you're actually making this candle, that is so cool that you're like doing that at home. Like why not take us through that process and you know, the next morning. Automate an email sequence that says like, this is what's happening to your candle now. Okay, it's gonna sit overnight by the time that candle arrives, like I already have this weird emotional connection with it of I know everything that candle has been through.
I know that, you know, Susie so-and-so made it for me. And so it's leaning into that fact of, yeah, it's gonna take a few days to ship out, but that's because I'm literally making this for you.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. That's awesome. That's a, a great way to frame the whole thing and I think gives the consumer like a better experience that like they're more likely to even like leave a positive review after now Totally.
Understanding that process.
Mallory Rowan: Yeah. It's something that Amazon can't give them. Right. They probably don't even really know what's happening in those like eight hours. It takes time.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right, so in the, in the intro I mentioned how you experienced burnout early on in your entrepreneurial journey.
Can you recall if there were any warning signs maybe even that you ignored before it became a serious problem for both like your personal and professional life?
Mallory Rowan: Yeah. There's an expression that says like the body whispers before it screams. So like if it, if you don't listen to it when it whispers, it's gonna make you listen when it screams.
And I think burnout's a prime example of that, of a lot of the signs are mental, emotional everything of this feeling of like, oh, I can push through this, or we think we have to have this mental toughness that we keep pushing through and kind of have it as a badge of honor. And instead of pushing through, we're actually pushing it down or pushing it down into our body.
And that's why later those physical signs come out of, you know, people will get shingles. Or for myself, I had a lot of gut issues, which is a common one, or skin irritations. So I think those early signs that I really missed at the time were things like, you know, feeling less like myself, having a little bit less of my personality.
I think, you know what? Honestly, at any age, we really tend to be in transitional periods. But for myself, like coming out of post-secondary too, I'm like, oh, is this just kind of who I am now? Right. Am I less fun now? Am I less bubbly? I felt really irritated easily, a lot more on edge, and these were things where, you know, you just kind of swallow in like, oh, I'm really busy.
It's just a bit of stress. But I think those were those early signs where in hindsight they needed more attention and if I had stepped in, then it wouldn't have gone to the place of the pneumonia and the crazy rashes and all that.
Bryan McAnulty: Got it. So after experiencing that, how did you manage to refocus your business and find the mi motivation to keep it growing?
Because I think a lot of people, once they hit something like that, they can say like, okay, I'm done with this entrepreneur thing.
Mallory Rowan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, one really gets you in touch with like what you do need and your non-negotiables. Looking at how even I. Like sleep is a great example, right? We think like it's a badge of honor to grind on a few hours of sleep, but if you actually read, there's several studies in books on sleep now and how like it's actually so detrimental if we're not sleeping.
Like the best thing you could do for your business is sleep eight hours. So sometimes it's about, for me, giving myself like the resources of. Education. Like for me to read stats on sleep is what's gonna get me in bed at like nine 30 or 10 versus somebody just telling me, you should sleep more. So for me it was really like, okay, what can I learn about this that will then empower me to make better decisions for myself?
I think that was a really big one. And then going back to that question of like, what do I really want? And like, why do I want that? And am I doing a. You know, a backwards circus way to get there when really there's maybe a more direct path if I cut out all that noise of what I think I'm supposed to do.
Bryan McAnulty: Got it. Yeah. That's great. So your company today helps entrepreneurs grow a thriving business without feeling burned out, without sacrificing everything. So how would you say now, besides like what you just mentioned, um mm-hmm. How would you balance multiple businesses and be able to prevent burnout at the same time?
Can you share like some strategies that work well for you or for your clients specifically?
Mallory Rowan: Yeah. I mean, one right at the bat is like learning no, and that no is a full sentence. I think a lot of us tend to be people pleasers and realizing how much we're really jumping through hoops just. To, you know, respond to that person's email that's pitching you something or to respond in a certain way, or to give them the time of day of a call.
Really finding those spaces of where are your hard nos and honoring those. Also in terms of your work boundaries, like for me, I. We'll, like one in a million times work on the evenings or the weekends. If the weekends, it's usually just because some sort of like inspiration hits me. It's not out of an obligation.
It's just maybe on a Sunday morning something feels fun. Or my other exception now would be like if I'm, like, last night I did a podcast with someone in Bali, so we're literally on a 12 hour difference. So like, I did 6:00 PM she did 6:00 AM Like that's an exception I will make, but really like, Not always Catering to other people is a huge one, not assuming urgency with every project.
I work with a lot of realtors as well where there's a lot that is urgent, so it's really becomes hard to decipher and kind of get out of that fight or flight of like everything's a priority. Especially when other people are asking for things from us. I remember one time someone asked me to get a proposal to them by Friday night.
This was like Friday morning, and I was like, oh, do you think I could like, You know, get it to you Saturday morning cuz it was a pretty big project. And they were like, yeah, no worries, we're not gonna look at it till Tuesday actually. And I was like, wow. I was gonna bend over backwards to like get this done.
I was canceling everything. And I'm like, okay, cool. I'll have it to you by end of day Monday then. Right? But if I didn't push that, even that little bit for my own boundaries, I wouldn't have found that out. So I think really like learning now. Learning your boundaries and constantly coming back to that question of like, is this still working towards what I want and not getting swept up in everyone else's schedule.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. I like that example that you just mentioned of how when you reached out, I. To them. So what I would say is like, oftentimes like your customers or your clients will ask for something, and like, they don't, they don't know what they're asking for. They don't understand even that, that you're bending over back backwards to do everything that you can for them.
And like, really if you did say no, like they wouldn't really feel bad. So they're just trying to understand, you know, even if they ask for something that, that maybe it feels to you like, Unreasonable or like, oh, I can't, I don't do this for, for people that that doesn't mean that they're like necessarily expecting that you have to do that for them.
Even they just don't know. And so I think it's good to keep that in mind and also in, in saying no and, and understanding like what, what difference would it actually make for certain things Where if you can go through an exercise of saying like, well, what if I didn't do any of like X thing right now?
What if I left it until tomorrow? And I think entrepreneurs would often be surprised of like how a lot of times nothing bad will happen. Yeah. From just letting something be a little bit longer. And so, so often, like of course everyone, like you care about your customers, you care about your business.
And I'm not saying to, to stop doing that. But it's just that you have this greater urgency in yourself than likely the, the people contacting you or asking of you. Even do.
Mallory Rowan: Totally. And I think there's always like an underlying ask. Like in that example, what I can understand from that person is like, well, I, I want to make sure that I have this when I go into this meeting with other people on Tuesday.
So if that's the underlying ask, it's like, okay, well you don't know me very well and I'm a like, you can count on me. I'm a reliable kind of person, so there's no way you won't have this. Monday, right? But it might be somebody coming from a place where they're used to people where they have to give almost those fake deadlines, right?
Mm-hmm. So that they can make their deadline. And it's the same with customers. Sometimes a client asks for something that might feel really outrageous, but really the underlying ask is like, I need to feel a little bit more emotionally supported in this moment. And so can we actually get behind what the on paper ask is?
Bryan McAnulty: Got it. Yeah, definitely. I think, I think that's a great point. So what role would you say personal finance plays in preventing burnout and building a sustainable business?
Mallory Rowan: Yeah, I think personal finance is everything. I think we need to be thinking of businesses, especially as entrepreneurs, like how is this business gonna serve me as a person?
What are those personal finance goals? Because that's really the business and the personal finance goals should be hand in hand. I like to think of it as like an investment pit stop. So if you're, whether you're employed or self-employed, if you have something that's paying you and all you're doing is, you know, funneling that directly to you, you're paying your bills for the month and you're doing little spending it kind of traps you in this very like, transactional relationship.
Whereas if you're doing what I call like an investment pit stop, it's always making sure like, Profit First is a common book that kind of speaks to this idea of paying yourself first or your future self first. If we're making that investment pit stop and making sure like, okay, the money that's coming in is gonna go towards something for future me, it's either maybe the stock market, maybe a real estate investment, something that's that financial goal, maybe an emergency fund even for starting out, that helps us separate from that.
Source of income, and I think we've all been in those positions where maybe you have a job. I know I had this, I had a job with a really great salary, really great perks, and it makes it hard to walk away from it. But if you're making sure that that money is always going somewhere productive, I think it helps to give you that independence.
People also, you know, talk about FU money. That's another example of like, you're always able to walk away because you have. Some sort of savings, some sort of emergency fund. So I think that's really, really important to think about. Even though I give an employed example, it's the same thing. Like if you have a business that's no longer serving you and you want to move forward, it's looking and being like, wow, I've worked all these hours and sure I've learned great things, but financially I'm in the same position.
Whereas the same person could be in another scenario where it's like, financially I'm light years ahead because of what I did with that money coming in.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, I, I think that's An excellent point and kind of like a, not a cheat, but like a great way to make it easier for yourself to not be in this mindset of like worry and doubt and wondering like, well, what can I do next?
Do I have any options? Because you don't have any of, any of that money saved up and like, yes, there's ways you can, can make it, make it through, I guess. Without doing it that way, but by setting aside some kind of emergency fund or something like that for yourself or paying yourself first, then you're making it a lot easier on your, your mindset and mentally to be able to say like, I get to make a decision now.
Like if I wanna walk away from this, if I wanna accept this or not. Because you know that you have that buffer there for yourself. And I think that's why like a lot of, like in the tech world, like companies take. Investments. It's not only to be able to like hire or grow or expand, but it's to be able to like have that comfort and like investors want the founders to have that comfort to know that they're not gonna suddenly be homeless tomorrow or something like this.
Right? And totally. So if you can create that for yourself, then like, awesome, because you are now at a position that you get to have this, this clear mindset at deciding what's the next thing to do without coming from this like place of scarcity or doubt.
Mallory Rowan: Yeah, and like we said, it's learning yourself, right, of what kind of pressures feel good to you.
For me, like a deadline is a great form of positive pressure of I can make something really great if I know that it has to be in by Friday and has to be like completely done. For me, I recognize with my first business early on, like. Financial pressure was not a fun pressure for me. Like it would just totally wipe the creative process.
Whereas something like finances, when I can think of big goals with finances, if I wanna like chase something that is super motivating, but coming from that scarcity side, like you said, it's such a creativity killer for me. And like you said, it makes you super anxious. So really learning that balance of what's gonna actually motivate you and what's gonna put you in a really bad place to operate from.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, I like that. And, and you're right, because actually the, the finance thing that may not be like the negative pressure that everybody has to worry about. Like I've heard how grant Cardone would say that like, he'll, he'll take everything that he earns and then he'll invest all of it and have nothing at the beginning of every year and then just have to do it over again.
Like for some people that, that, like, for him that's motivation that like, all right, this is like, this is how I'm going to do it. Just like the deadline's, motivation for yourself, but for others, that's like crippling anxiety and like I, I don't want to have that situation cause that stops me from being able to move forward a hundred percent.
Mallory Rowan: I always say like, I'm somebody that needed like 30 grand in savings to quit my job and my partner needed like $3 in his bank account. And it's just very different. Right. Whatever fuels you.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, definitely. So, All right. Cool. I wanna talk a little bit about social media marketing now, so, mm-hmm. You mentioned that that's something that, that you're really into, and specifically like tactics of how you can grow without spending money on advertising.
I think that is really attractive to our audience and everybody watching and listening. But it's, it's really challenging to grow on social media. So what would you recommend to somebody who says, like, this sounds good. I, I wanna invest into growing my social media. How would they get started? Yeah.
Mallory Rowan: I think people forget, it comes back to like the foundations of marketing.
We see social media as its own beast, but really it comes down to knowing your brand inside out, knowing your customer inside out. I always say like a Friday night date test is if your brand and your customer was on a date on a Friday night. You should be able to tell me everything about that, right?
What are they wearing? How are they talking? Where are they eating? Are they eating? Are they out for drinks? We should be able to know that inside out. I think a really great place is if you can find like a sub community. The internet allows so much space for nicheing within niches. I always use dude with a sign as an example.
Like the entire account is a guy holding a sign with a different message on it. That's how niche we can go, right? There's. Like weird accounts of like frogs pretending to be people, right? Like there's so much space on the internet that I think if you try to go too generic to appeal to everyone, it's really not gonna work and it's not gonna be as fun for you if you can find that unique meeting ground of places.
For us, with our first business, it was looking at those power lifting athletes, but specifically those that were really socially driven and wanted to have an impact but didn't have time. So like combining those two worlds I think that's a really big thing. And then the third is just, Not giving in to this like, self-inflicted pressure of how we're supposed to show up on social.
I think people see things that are working and they feel like they have to do it. When reels came out, everyone was dancing and pointing and like, it felt like people had like a gun to their head off camera because they looked like they hated it. Like they were so awkward. Mm-hmm. But they felt like it was like how they had to do reels.
And I remember I had sent an email, at the time it was like seven ways to do reels without dancing and pointing and like the relief that people felt just to have tangible examples of like, oh, okay, I actually don't have to do this thing, but we're just so quick trying to keep up with it that all of a sudden we're like dancing and like after cringing at ourselves, totally hating it.
And it's just remembering like there's lots of different ways to find your community online and you don't have to give in to the bigger tactics you're seeing.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah, that's a great point. Okay, so how about more for creating content then, like, so you don't have to give in to, to those tactics.
What, what, what's a, a great place to start then? If somebody's wondering like, well, what, what do I actually create? What do I actually post about?
Mallory Rowan: For sure. So I kind of say there's like six categories you can have that will guide you of any type of topics that you wanna talk about. So we wanna be you know, creating educational content that can look like a lot of different things.
But something where we're giving our community a quick win. That's a really great one. If it's like, oh, I've, you know, there's probably someone you've seen, you're like, oh, I always learn something from their posts. Or, I applied this thing that they taught me and, you know, I, I. Put in this email trick and my email conversions went up.
That's a really big one. Social proof. So, you know, whether it's customer testimonials case studies about customers. Could be that a podcast you're on or a media feature. I think a lot of people think when they're small, they don't, they're like, well, I'm not in Forbes. And it's like, okay. But there's probably a local podcast you could reach out to that has guests and that's still something you can.
Use connection content would be the third one. So that's kind of like that sub niche community feel of what are things that just you and your customer would get. Right. Are you people that love craft beer? Is that like a connection point you can have as a thread throughout? And that category is really gonna help us feel like more intimacy and like real people on the internet versus just another skincare brand or whatever it might be.
The fourth one would be anecdotes. So can you tell a story your own personal story? Even a lot of the stories I've shared with you today, made for great content on the internet. If I wanted to turn them into posts the next one would be promotional. So people either do way too much promotional or not enough, right?
Every post doesn't have to. End in a sale or we have those really shy people where you almost have to like do a, where's Waldo of like, what does this person actually offer? Like how do I actually work with this person? So always make sure whether, you know, it's not just a launch, it can be talking about your payment plan options.
It could be a walkthrough of the behind the scenes of making your product, but really talking about what it is you offer. And then the last one would be engagement. This would be like those quick hit reels of like, I think people think all of their content has to go viral, and that's why I like to put it as that category of, okay, you can create content with that goal of hitting a huge reach, but it doesn't have to be all of that content doing it.
That's a specific category. So I kinda use those six categories and then if you had even like, you know, three main things you love to reinforce in your business, that's 18 pieces of content. If you just did one per category, and I can guarantee people can do way more than one per category, right? So that's kind of what I use as a base for all my students, and I find it helps to get them, instead of just looking at a blank page, it's like, okay, what can I educate on?
What kind of social proof do I have?
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah. I can attest to like the storytelling and the importance of that. That's something that I, I feel like I always understood, but at the same time I didn't understand it maybe well enough because like we don't do enough social media. I think we, we gotta get a little bit better at that.
But I thought like, okay, I wanna educate people. I wanna help people learn how to grow as an entrepreneur, how to, to grow their course business, their coaching business. And so I thought like, okay, well we're gonna share, like, for example, we share clips from our podcast like this. And we, at first, we're focusing more on like, well, where's like the, the educational points that we can make sure we share to, to share the really helpful information?
And that's good. But people on social media, like they wanna be entertained as well. And so if you're just sharing this really helpful point, like somebody wasn't looking for that necessarily. And so yeah, they may just scroll right past it and, and not actually get the value that you, you think you can give them from that.
Yeah. And yeah, what really brought this realization to me is we had a post from when I was talking with Andrew Warner he's the founder of Mixer G. He's done all the over 2000 inter interviews with entrepreneurs and he was telling me this story about his kids going out to sell lemonade. And how he took 'em out to sell lemonade and they asked what to charge and he said, well, you can, let's ask people to pay whatever they want.
And we made that into a clip. And like honestly, when I was talking with him during that episode, like my goal was like to learn how to share, how to be a better interviewer with our audience. Mm. Because that's what I knew he was an expert at. So I actually didn't wanna stay on like that topic too long.
Yeah. But I'm really glad that he went through that whole story because we shared that story and we got like over 50,000 views, like almost 20,000 likes on on that reel from posting it. Yeah. And that made me realize like, well, people want to. To be entertained and to hear a story. And like there was value in it still.
Like he was explaining the idea of like paying what you want and how it can make sense to try that even though you might feel nervous. And like he gave the example, his kids were nervous. They said, well, what if people only pay a penny? Like, are we gonna go broke from selling them lemonade? Right. And so yeah, he, he, he had value in it as well, but the story was really what got everybody's attention.
So, I would say to people listening and, and watching like little stories about things that have happened in your life or that you can talk about is something that your audience can likely resonate with as well.
Mallory Rowan: Yeah, it's that connection point that we're all looking for too. And like you said, there's always gonna be a takeaway in a story.
And I think it's the same way. You know, we joke of like how you can remember lyrics to songs forever. I think stories have that same feel of we can watch all the videos on like three. Ways to price your product, but what you're gonna remember is the story about the lemonade stand and the kids, right? So I think it really gives that tangible thing.
It's the same we talked about the candle woman with making the email series. That's probably what somebody's gonna remember to remind them, okay, how can I lean into that? Versus just the sentence of like, lean into the small business side of things. Right?
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, definitely. All right, so on the show we like to ask each of our guests to ask a question to the audience.
So if you could ask our audience anything, whether it's something you just want them to think about or it's something that you're genuinely curious about, what would that be?
Mallory Rowan: I think it comes back to that theme we've kind of had throughout of just. What do you really want? And ask yourself that like three more times.
Whenever you get that answer, ask it again. What does this really mean? Until you feel like you're at the core of what you really want, and then ask yourself, is my business that I'm building actually supporting that? Awesome.
Bryan McAnulty: All right. Well, Mallory, before we get going, where else can people find you online?
Mallory Rowan: Pretty much any platform at Mallory Rowan, so mallory rowan.com For my website, Instagram and TikTok are both at Mallory, Rowan, Twitter as well. Instagram is my main jam for sure right now. Cool.
Bryan McAnulty: All right. Thanks so much, Mallory.
Mallory Rowan: Yeah, no problem.
Bryan McAnulty: I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 Creator's at creatorclimb.com.
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