Bryan McAnulty:

What if the reason that people aren't buying from you has nothing to do with your offer, your price, or your content, but how their brain reacts to your message?

Vince Warnock:

Because it doesn't really add value to them. And I don't mean from the benefits and features, but value to them as a person.

Bryan McAnulty:

Today, we're interviewing Vince Warnock, an eleven-time bestselling author, publisher, award-winning marketing and visibility coach, and expert in neuromarketing, publishing, podcasting, and AI. Vince has been recognized as one of the Fearless50, a program created by Adobe to celebrate some of the world's top marketers. But he's also had to overcome imposter syndrome and learn how to build from a place of genuine heart.

Vince Warnock:

It's not about me. It's not about my brand. It's about what I'm serving them. That transformed everything across all the different businesses.

Bryan McAnulty:

So today we're going to ask him how entrepreneurs can use neuromarketing to build trust, get attention, and communicate in a way that actually connects with people without feeling fake or manipulative.

Vince Warnock:

Use neuromarketing to get people to come to the same conclusion they normally would, but just a lot faster.

Bryan McAnulty:

Welcome to The Creator's Adventure, where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. Hey everyone, I'm Bryan McAnulty, the founder of Heights Platform. Let's get into it.

Hey Vince, welcome to the show.

Vince Warnock:

Oh my goodness, man. I've been so looking forward to this. Thank you so much for having me.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, absolutely. First question for you today is, what would you say is the biggest thing that either you did or you are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?

Vince Warnock:

Okay. I think it's going to sound really kind of woo-woo and out there, but a really important moment for me was realizing that all of our businesses have nothing to do with me. They're all to do with our customers.

Even with my podcast, one of the revelations I had was, I was trying to get guests on the show that I thought made me look good. I was trying to get guests on the show that were good for my brand. The moment I was listening to some of these guests and going, I don't want that person in front of my audience. That person's not going to add any value to them. This is not their world. Their world is heart-centered entrepreneurs. It's people that actually care. And this person I'm trying to get on my show, despite being an incredibly big name, they only care about their wallet.

So that, for me, it sounds small, but it was such a revelation to go, actually, it's not about me. It's not about my brand. It's about what I'm serving them. That transformed everything across all the different businesses.

Bryan McAnulty:

Did that impact your product or your service in any way as well? Essentially what you're saying, but I'm curious.

Vince Warnock:

Yeah, I think so. Because we looked at this and we thought, it's not a practical thing we're doing. We're just saying, hey, we're not going to have these people in our realm, so that shouldn't add any value to our offerings and things.

But for some reason, that was the point where everything started to scale. I noticed, for our podcast, for example, we were on, I think, about 10,000 downloads per episode. By making that decision, even though it didn't change anything public-facing at all, no one could tell that we had made that decision, but by making that decision ourselves, all of a sudden everything felt aligned. Everything just seemed to click into place.

Then we got up to 100,000. Now we're up to 150,000 per episode. So all of that growth we can attribute back to that one decision, that one point. Even though—and this is the problem, I have a very logical brain—from a logical-brain perspective, that makes no sense at all, but it just works.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah. So, I've heard you mention neuromarketing. What do most entrepreneurs kind of misunderstand about that? And what would you say is your definition of that?

Vince Warnock:

Oh my goodness. The definition is really simple. Neuromarketing is just understanding people's behavior, right? And marketing to that behavior.

But the biggest mistake most people make is they all operate in one particular part of the brain. So, to give you a quick crash course in neuromarketing, there are three main parts of the brain that are involved in decision processes, right? If you're looking to buy something online or you're going to buy a big-ticket item or something like that, there are three parts of the brain.

There's the reptilian brain, which is the kind of defense mechanism of the brain. That's the thing that's always looking out for you and making sure that you're not doing something stupid, basically. It's that feeling when you go to a car salesman, or a car sales yard, and the salesman comes up and they're a little bit sleazy, and the back of your brain is just going, I don't trust this guy. Get away. Just get out. Now, that's the reptilian brain in action.

So, it doesn't make a decision on what to buy, but it certainly makes a decision on how to opt out. Most good marketers know how to deal with this. We deal with this through things like testimonials, reviews, shared stories, case studies, all those kinds of things, like social proof. That helps to make that part of the brain at ease.

Then there are two other parts involved in the decision, and these are actually the decision-makers. There is the neocortex, which is the logical part of the brain, and this is unfortunately where most entrepreneurs focus their marketing. They list their benefits, their features, why this is a good product, why you should buy this product. All these kinds of things are tied to the logical part of the brain.

The problem with that is we generally, particularly with bigger-ticket items, don't make the decision in the logical brain. We make it in the limbic system, which is the emotional brain, and we justify that decision with the logic. So you still need the logical stuff there, but actually where you really should be targeting is where they are emotionally. Good brands know this, good marketers know this.

But one of the simplest ways to focus on this is to go, okay, I always look at it from Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We have our safety needs at the bottom of that. If you haven't looked at Maslow, you totally need to. It's fascinating.

But we have two psychological layers there. One of them is the layer which is belonging or community. Some people call it being loved. But everyone has an inbuilt need to belong to something, to be loved, to be part of something.

Unfortunately, most entrepreneurs think, oh yeah, I need to create a Facebook group or a Skool community or something. No, that's not what that's talking about. It's actually belonging. Above that layer is esteem. So that is knowing that you're not just part of a tribe, for example, but you're adding value to that tribe. You're getting that recognition in that tribe.

Because from an anthropological perspective, if you weren't part of a community, back in the old caveman days, I guess, you were on your own and you were dead. Pretty much, you were isolated and you were a target. If you weren't adding value to your community, there's a good chance that you were the weakest and you would be banished, and you'll be on your own and you'll die. So it's kind of built into us, that survival mechanism.

But those two layers tell us a hell of a lot about how people make decisions. I'll give you a good example. I'm a huge whiskey fan, right? I love whiskey. I'm not very knowledgeable on whiskey, but I really enjoy a good whiskey.

I saw a Kickstarter online for a hip flask. In fact, it was a set of two hip flasks, specially designed for whiskey lovers. They're made of glass instead of metal, so you can actually sterilize them really easily, so you don't get any taint, cross-pollination of different flavors. It's really solid glass. You can actually throw it on the ground. The way it's made, it kind of curves enough that it doesn't break.

But they still put a sleeve around it. You can get a leather sleeve or a rubber sleeve that protects it, but also has a slot there so you can actually see how much whiskey is in there. Then it has a special cork, a replaceable cork in there, so that way you get the aromas and all this kind of stuff.

I immediately had to buy this. The problem with that is the reason I bought that wasn't any of the things I just said, because they're all the logical reasons why you would buy this. If you're a whiskey lover, those all make logical sense.

The problem with that is I don't use hip flasks. I never have. Since I bought it, I've actually used it twice. Once because we were going to Auckland when we were back in New Zealand. I didn't want to take a whole bottle of whiskey, and I thought that'd be nice. The other time is because we did a picnic on a riverboat here, and I thought, well, that's an easier way than taking a whole bottle of whiskey. People are going to look at you funny.

So that's the only two times in the five years I've had those flasks that I've ever used them. The reason I bought them was because I want to be known as a whiskey lover. When I tell people that story, when I tell people I've bought these hip flasks and I show them these hip flasks, two things happen.

One, they assume that I'm part of this whiskey community. I feel like I belong. I feel like I have identity tied to this. The second thing is they immediately go, oh wow, Vince actually knows quite a lot about whiskey. Full disclosure, I really don't, but it seems like I know a lot. So I get that recognition in there of, not only is Vince a whiskey lover, but he clearly knows a lot about whiskey.

That's the only reason I bought those. And then I justified them with all of those logical reasons that I just said. So that's, I think, the trick that most people miss: stop marketing to the features and benefits. Market instead to who they are, to who they want to be, and their sense of identity.

Bryan McAnulty:

Real quick, Bryan here. You know me as the host for this podcast, but what you might not know is I'm also the founder of Heights Platform. It's an all-in-one platform that over 10,000 creators have used to build their online courses, communities, and digital product businesses. We recently added some awesome updates to Heights AI to help you turn your idea into a viable business. Heights AI can build entire product offers, review your content, and even coach you on how to grow. You can try it for free for 30 days. Links in the description. Now, back to the podcast.

Yeah, I think that's so powerful. I'm sure that our audience can think of something that they purchased and realize that they purchased that thing not because they need it, not because it even made logical sense that they should have it. Maybe it doesn't make any logical sense that they should have it, but—

Vince Warnock:

I can tell you this. I took my daughter shopping one day when she was younger. She was about, I think, 12. There was a shop back in New Zealand—I can't remember, it's called Supré—and she was like, oh my goodness, Dad, this shop just gets me. They know exactly what I like.

I went, uh-oh. She looked at me, and she immediately knew that was the stupidest thing to say to a marketer. So I said, right, we're going in the store. She goes, Dad. I said, just trust me on this.

We went in there, and I said, now, what do you see? She goes, I see clothes that are just made for me, that I love, that they totally understand me. I said, okay, look beyond that. What is on the walls? Oh, there's posters and pictures and photos everywhere. I said, yep, and who are those photos of? She goes, women.

I said, yep, very attractive women. Yeah. How old are those women? She goes, 18, 20. I said, yeah, how old are you? She goes, 12.

I said, do you think perhaps that they're not marketing to what you like, but they're marketing to what you want to be with these photos on the wall, and then they're telling you that that's what you need to be there? She goes, yes. She was so annoyed with me. She goes, don't ruin my shopping experience.

But then in the end, she said, look, Dad, I just really like the clothes. I said, well, that's a great reason to buy them. Okay, that's fine. I just don't want you being manipulated by marketing.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah. Because absolutely, if your product can make the person feel that this is just an extension of who they are, and that without it they can't be who they want to be, that's the strongest way.

Vince Warnock:

You become the only brand they'll buy. It's as simple as that.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, exactly. What would you say is a simple thing that creators can change in their messaging to help people either connect with that more emotionally or just even maybe to help people trust them faster?

Vince Warnock:

I think the biggest thing they can do is actually both simple and hard at the same time, so bear with me on this. Instead of trying to sell your product, sell an outcome. Look at your clients, your potential clients, and think, what is the outcome that they really want from this?

I'll give you a good example. One of our clients, she was selling weight-loss programs. She would do these exercise programs for women in the UK, and she got right down to a niche. She specifically targeted women that have just had a baby, so they want to lose the baby weight. It kind of worked for a bit. She had relatively full classes.

Then she realized that actually the majority of the work she does isn't involved in the exercise or diet. It's more mindset stuff. It's breaking off past traumas. So she pivoted and said, right, I'm going to help break your trauma. And all of a sudden, no one signed up.

She couldn't figure out why, and I was like, well, first of all, it's pretty simple. No one wants to admit they have trauma. No one actually thinks they have trauma, because unless they've got really severe trauma, they think that theirs isn't really as bad as other people's, so therefore it shouldn't be an issue. Which, of course, it is an issue.

So I said, let's go back to the weight-loss program, but let's go deeper on that. Why do women want to lose weight when they've had a baby? She goes, oh, because they want to look good. No, for what? Let's get really specific.

One of the things she noticed is that all of the women that she had, once they had had a baby in the UK, they all do the same thing. They take their baby down to the pool for swimming lessons because it's just part of the culture there. But these women have to show up in their bathing suits after just having a baby, and they're all feeling really insecure around each other.

So instead of saying, hey, I'm going to help you lose your baby weight, why don't you speak to what's actually important to them? Her marketing revolved around, you go down to the pool, you're insecure because you're in your bathing suit, you still haven't lost the baby weight. Let's get you feeling confident.

That's all they want. They want to feel confident in that pool. By changing her messaging to that, all of a sudden she had full classes. To this day, she's actually scaled her entire business, and now she doesn't do any of it. She just has trainers that do all this work for her, purely because you can target that specific moment with how they're feeling and what the outcome is that they want.

So, start thinking about that rather than, hey, I've got this benefit, this feature, this pricing model, this blah, blah, blah. Actually speak to whatever it is that they have.

This is the biggest thing I see with coaches. Working with a coach who is a really good coach around sales, right? But they couldn't sell themselves. It's a really ironic thing, but they were out there going, hey, I'm helping all these people double their revenue.

I said, well, then don't start selling the ability to sell. Say to them, hey, I can come alongside you and help you double your revenue. If people knew that that was the outcome that you're selling, then they would pay more for that outcome.

Instead of negotiating on price, which always happened, he was like, I'm going to teach you sales. Oh, well, can I get a discount? Can I blah, blah, blah, all this? No. If you tell them you're going to double their revenue, when they look at the price of what you're charging them, that's pretty much nothing. So, no-brainer, easy sale.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, I completely agree. I say the same thing to our audience a lot, that you have to build it around that outcome and the result, and you have to think of why the person actually wants that thing. I think it's even more true now than ever.

Because now with AI and all these changes, at least it's impacting me more that I have a software business, and the idea of the software was supposed to be that you're going to use this software and it's going to help you achieve something that you want. But now AI exists, so now it's instead, well, how can we just deliver the outcome directly?

I think that whether you're a course creator or a coach, and you've already been thinking this way, or if you've been thinking, okay, how can I expand what I'm offering, or maybe I'm even more of an agency or something like that, I think everything has to become more outcome-oriented.

Vince Warnock:

Absolutely. Courses are a great example of this as well. This is going to be a shock to most course creators, but most people don't do your course because they want to learn something. They want to do your course because they want the accreditation on that. So, if you can offer them something that they're proud of.

I did this myself. It was ironic. I was recognized by Adobe as one of the top 50 marketers in the world. I came back to the office, and everyone was like, wow, what qualifications do you have? I kind of realized, they'd only selected the top 25 at the time. Of that top 25, only five of them had marketing qualifications. The rest of them were all self-taught, like I was.

That was kind of an embarrassing thing. I thought, oh, I need to do some qualifications. So I went online and I found a group that does marketing qualifications. First of all, the quality of those courses was so bad. I aced all of them because, obviously, the stuff's secondhand to me. But in the end, I didn't want to tell anyone that I had those qualifications because I was a little bit embarrassed about it.

So I actually had to go to Harvard. I had to go to some of these ones on the edX platform and things like that, and go, okay, what are the ones there that are going to add credibility to me? They're going to make me look good, rather than just, I learned something that I already knew.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, that's an interesting point. What do you say to the creator who—because I would argue that I don't think you needed those things either—what do you say to the creator who's kind of held themselves back from maybe even getting their offer out there because they're worried that they don't have some kind of special credentials?

Vince Warnock:

Yeah, I didn't. Okay, this was a revelation to me, and it's going to sound a little bit of a weird tangent at the moment, but hear me out on this.

When I was writing my first book, I was at the point where I finished the draft manuscript, and that was when Adobe had recognized me as one of the top marketers. I was sitting at a dinner with the other 24 that were chosen, and these were all my heroes. I'd read every book of every person at that table, man. I was like a kid in a candy shop, just going, I cannot believe I even get to meet these people, and here I am at the table with them. This is insane to me.

One of them turned around, and he said to me, oh, look, you've finished your draft manuscript. Is that right? I said, yeah. He goes, okay, let me guess. Now you're sitting here going, what right do I have to put that out in the world? I went, yeah.

Now, I didn't realize he was talking generically. I thought he's specifically talking about me personally, because that's what it felt like. Then he goes, and you're sitting there going, people are going to read this and realize I'm a fraud. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. He goes, and you're going, oh, who do I think I am? I'm like, yeah.

He goes, oh yeah, same. I went, what? He goes, yeah, my eighth book's coming up. Every single time, I go through that same process. Then Seth Godin's sitting next to me. He goes, yeah, same. I'm like, what the hell's going on here? This shouldn't be a thing.

Seth said to me something which just changed my opinion on everything. He said, look, you and I could write a book on the exact same topic, and we could put it out there. Mine will sell really well because people know who I am. You're an up-and-comer, so it won't sell as many. But people will buy my book, and there'll be a bunch of people that buy it and go, wow, this is revolutionary. This has changed my whole view on the world and marketing, et cetera. Changed my life.

There'll be others that read it and go, that was a good book. But then they'll read yours, and it's the exact same topic. For some reason, when they read yours, everything clicks, and they're like, oh my goodness, now I get it.

The reason for that is nothing to do with what you're teaching or I'm teaching. It's to do with who you are and who I am and what the stories we're telling are. Because when people read yours, Vince, if they're going through that same journey, or they've been through that journey, or they're starting that journey, they will feel very seen. They'll feel very understood and go, oh man, Vince just gets me.

Whereas I've got the same thing, he said, where those people read my books, they'll be like, okay, that was a good book. But if they are on my journey, they'll go, wow, Seth just totally understands me.

There are people out there waiting for you to show up, waiting for you to do your courses, waiting for you to write your books, waiting for all of these different things, because you are going to speak directly to them and make them feel seen.

That changed how I approach everything. Every little part of me that kept wanting to hold back because of imposter syndrome, I'm like, you know what, imposter syndrome, we've got this. It's okay. We're going to do this. We're going to show up for these people. It's not about me anymore.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, that's a great story. I'm glad you shared it. I think that I've seen more creators worry about, well, what do they do with AI now? Is AI going to replace them? I always tell them something very similar: it's your unique message and experience that's the reason people want to work with you.

That's also why you don't have to worry about your competition. Because just as you told in the story, there's going to be people who connect to you, and nobody else is you.

Vince Warnock:

Yeah, I see this all the time in publishing. A lot of publishers are very anti-AI. We're not. We embrace it. We don't generally let our clients write a book with AI, but that's not because we're anti-AI.

It's just because when they're marketing a book, we rely on the fact that when that draft book comes and they rip open their own Amazon envelope and pull it out, it's got the proof written all over it. We rely on that look on their face where they're like, oh my goodness, I did this. I wrote a book.

But if that book was ghostwritten for them or written by AI, then they all have the same reaction, which is they open it and they go, oh wow, I wrote a book. And you can almost verbally hear the back of their brain going, kind of. There's a hesitation in them to push it out there.

But with AI, a lot of the publishers are thinking the exact same thing. It's just, oh no, now people can write a credible book and put it out there. They can write a book that has good information. Don't get me wrong, AI can actually do a pretty damn good job of that. But your stories, that's what people connect with.

People don't connect with information. They connect with people. This is kind of a core principle in neuromarketing. People sell to people, not a process sells to people, or a product sells to people. It's people. They connect with you. So when you tell your stories and you bring them to life in a book, that's why people go, that was a good book.

AI can never replace that without just purely making up stories. As we know, that's unethical. So hopefully no one ever does that.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah. How can somebody use neuromarketing then in an ethical way without feeling like they're manipulating people?

Vince Warnock:

Yeah, this is a big one. I'm a huge advocate for ethical marketing. I will tell you this: one of the best reviews I've ever had on my Mindful Marketing book, because it just goes through a lot of the cognitive biases, and this is kind of the base level that marketers speak to the limbic system. They use cognitive biases like a sense of urgency, fear of missing out, all these kinds of things.

But one of the things in there, I was very cautious about how you use it ethically, where you shouldn't. The best review I ever got, he still gave me four stars, but he said, my only challenge with this book is it's too ethical. Some of the things Vince says we shouldn't do are really good ways to sell. I was like, you know what, I'll take that as a compliment, my man.

But the key thing is you've always got to think, it's always got to be about your customer. One of the key rules, because neuromarketing is very powerful, if you understand what the drivers are for people, you understand how the cognitive biases work, how the sense of identity works, all these kinds of things, then you can push people in a direction. It just has to be a direction that they were going to go anyway.

This is the key thing I say to people: use neuromarketing to get people to come to the same conclusion they normally would, but just a lot faster. Don't push them in a direction.

The last thing you ever want to do is make people buy your product or your service or your offering and then have buyer's remorse and go, well, I never really wanted that. They're going to feel very negative towards your brand and very negative towards you.

So always think of, how do I make sure this is a decision they want to make? And then, how do I overdeliver on that? That's the other aspect.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, it's great advice. What have you learned from publishing and podcasting about what helps make people pay attention?

Vince Warnock:

Oh my goodness. Well, stories, always. I'm a storyteller, to a fault. My wife will tell you. She actually sent me out to go to the movies last night. She goes, I just want some time when you're not just talking nonstop. Okay, I totally get that.

But no, it's stories. Connect with people. I think that's one of the best ways there as well. The other thing is just being very conscious of your marketing, very conscious of what you're doing, very conscious of your audience, and that will connect with them.

For example, if I'm going out there just telling you how brilliant I am. I've seen this in a networking group. I walked in, and one guy just walked right up to me and he goes, hey, how's it going? I'm Richard. I said, hey, Richard. He goes, this is what I do, why I'm so good at it, and blah, blah, blah, and all this. He just handed me his business card. He goes, thanks, man. Turned around and walked off.

I looked around the room, and I noticed every single person he was talking with, at the end, they would just throw his card in the bin. I'm like, well, you've just wasted all this time.

The best thing was actually going up—in fact, I did this in an online networking group one time. Full disclosure, I didn't want to be there. I was there because a friend was running it, and I'm like, I'm tired. I'm worn out today, but fine, I'll turn up to your damn networking event.

I hopped into this breakout room, and what they did is a five-minute timer, two people meeting, and each of you just gets to speak about who you serve and what you're looking for. So I just thought, I'm going to take control of this conversation.

I started by going, look, we've only got five minutes. I knew the woman I was talking with was brand new there. We've only got five minutes. That goes really fast. Why don't you tell me who it is you serve and what you do and what your biggest challenge is? What are you hoping to get out of this networking event?

She started going down this route, talking about what she does, all this. Then she started talking about what she's trying to get out, and she's like, I really just need new leads. I said, oh, are you struggling in that area? She goes, yeah. I said, well, tell me what you're doing.

She's like, well, I've been trying this and this and this. I said, well, have you thought about pivoting towards this? She goes, no. I went, well, if you did this, you've already got the audience here. This would actually help, and it would build a whole new audience. I just gave her this advice, and she was like, oh my God, this is amazing. Thank you.

We got to the end. It was less than one minute left, and she goes, oh my God. She panicked. She went, I'm so sorry, I've taken all the time. There's one minute left. What do you do? I said, basically what we just did here.

She went, oh. I said, yeah, I just help people with their marketing to align and help them to find those leads and convert them. She goes, okay, can I work with you? I went, sure. Okay. I made a sale in less than one minute because I had focused purely on them.

That's the key. If you want your audience to pay attention to you, want to cut through that noise, make them feel so seen, so heard, and so loved, essentially, that they will want to be in your presence. Simple as that.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yeah, that's excellent advice. Maybe your answer to this next question is either related or very similar, but how did understanding human behavior help you personally with visibility, confidence, or imposter syndrome?

Vince Warnock:

It helped me to understand who I am, which is a huge thing as well. Because my first foray into imposter syndrome was, I grew up in a very poor neighborhood, man. I was in a very abusive home. I was certainly not an entrepreneur. I had an entrepreneurial spirit. My first business was when I was 11, selling pirated video games for the old Commodore 64. Don't judge me, everyone. I had no moral compass.

But when I finally wanted to be an entrepreneur, proper entrepreneur, big-boy entrepreneur, I got given a ticket to a business breakfast. I was like, this is huge. It was a guy from Adobe. I'm like, wow, this is a company I respect. I use Adobe. I think Photoshop 2 had just come out. I'm like, this is awesome. I'm going to go there. I'm going to learn everything from this guy, and I'm going to be a successful entrepreneur.

I realized everyone's going to be turning up in suits. I didn't have a suit, so I went to a thrift shop and bought, I think it was a $2 suit. Oh boy, was it disgusting. It was this gray that was almost shiny, almost like silver-gray. Double-breasted, which I do not—to be fair, no one suits double-breasted. It was oversized, so it came down to my knuckles and all this. I had long hair tied up in a ponytail. It was a disaster look.

But I turned up there, walked in the room, and suddenly felt so exposed. I'm like, I don't belong here. Everyone's going to be judging me. Everyone's going to be looking at me going, you're a fraud. Get out.

But I thought, I'm determined. I'm going to do this anyway. Even though I genuinely wanted to just huddle up in the fetal position and cry, I thought, no, I'm going to do this.

I sat at this table, and in my mind everyone there was wearing Armani or Tom Ford suits. They probably weren't, obviously, but it felt like that considering what I was wearing. I sat there and I listened to this guy, and his talk was amazing. He was so good. I thought, this is what I want to speak like. It's what I want to be like.

At the end of it, he said, look, I'm going to come around to each of the tables, and just have your questions ready if you've got any questions. I had this internal dialogue in my mind, man. My mind's going, okay, you've got one shot. Think of something intelligent here, right? Think of something intelligent.

While I'm talking to myself about this, I realize he's standing next to me. He goes, oh, any questions? My mouth just turned around and said, yeah, at what point did you know you'd made it? I could literally hear my brain going, dude, you had one job. One job. That is a stupid question. I was like, damn it.

He looked at me and he looked at the table, and he goes, actually, that's a really good question, Vince. I went, oh. Then he goes, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. I'm going to let you know my morning routine.

I'm like, oh my goodness, this is gold. Because I'd heard about morning routines being the success of entrepreneurs, so I'm going to write down everything he says. He goes, I deliberately get up early every morning. So I'm writing down, deliberately, early. I ask him what time. Usually about five. Great, great, great. Write that down.

He goes, then I go straight to the bathroom. I'm like, interesting. Doesn't check his phone or anything like that, or his computer. Cool. He goes, and I fill up the sink with cold water. I'm like, do I ask him how cold? No, I'll just write cold water.

He goes, and then I splash the water on my face. I look in the mirror and I go, ha, today's the day they find out you're a fraud.

I went, what? He goes, I've never felt like I made it, Vince. It doesn't matter how much success I have, I'm always going to feel like I'm just that kid growing up on my block that's never really going to amount to anything. He said, everyone here deals with the same thing. He indicated around the table. I remember looking around the table, and everyone was nodding.

It suddenly made me realize a couple of things. First of all, it made me realize I'm not alone, right? I realized everybody there was going through the same self-doubt, imposter syndrome, that I was. But it also made me realize I've got as much right to be at that table as everybody else.

That started my journey of education around it. I started realizing what it is. When you realize what imposter syndrome is, it's really powerful. All it is is your brain going, hey, I'm trying to keep you safe. You're out of your comfort zone right now. You're exposed. You're vulnerable. I don't want you to be vulnerable. I'm going to use fear to get you back into your safe space, into your comfort zone.

So your nervous system and your brain are working together to go, hey, this is a mess. Get back over here. The problem with that, we're entrepreneurs. If you're a creator, you're an entrepreneur, which means that outside of your comfort zone is exactly where you're supposed to be.

That's where growth happens, breakthrough happens, wealth happens, success happens. Every good thing happens outside of your comfort zone, right? It happens because you're pushing yourself.

So when you hear those little voices—I used to say little voices, now they kind of scream at me, just loud voices in my background—just going, who do you think you are? You're an imposter. You're making this up as you go along. I get to say, you know what, brain? Listen to me. I really appreciate you. I appreciate you looking out for me. I appreciate you're constantly trying to keep me safe, and I value that. It's such an important part of me.

But you need to know something. I'm all good. I've got this. I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be right now. Yes, I am making this up as I go along. That's called entrepreneurship. It's literally the definition of entrepreneurship. You're pioneering. You're going somewhere new. But we've got the ability, and we've got the support network, and we've got everything else. We've got this.

When you understand that, suddenly those voices don't become things to hold you back. Let's be very clear: imposter syndrome is not actually dangerous to you. Imposter syndrome doesn't damage you. What you do with it is, right? The self-sabotage that comes from those feelings, that's the damaging part.

So I just get to say to imposter syndrome, when I hear those voices, hey, I've got this. But it also shows me that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. For me, if those voices are loud, I'm doing well. Simple as that.

Bryan McAnulty:

Excellent advice and great story. I want to get into a quick lightning round now. I'm looking for a quick take or a ten-second answer on these next few.

Vince Warnock:

Okay.

Bryan McAnulty:

What is the fastest way to make people trust you online?

Vince Warnock:

Be vulnerable. When you share a vulnerable story, they feel safe. Their nervous system, their reptilian brain goes, hey, I'm not needed here. You're all good.

Bryan McAnulty:

What makes somebody instantly forgettable in their marketing?

Vince Warnock:

Instantly forgettable, did you say?

Bryan McAnulty:

Yes. Instantly forgettable.

Vince Warnock:

Instantly forgettable. Just make it all about you. If it's all about you, no one cares. No one knows who you are. No one cares about you. It's a sort of harsh reality. But care about them.

Bryan McAnulty:

What is one reason that people don't buy even when the offer is good, or you think it's good?

Vince Warnock:

Because it doesn't really add value to them. I don't mean from the benefits and features, but value to them as a person. Unless they're just impulse buying, which I do all the time, sadly. But for big purchases and things, generally it's got to be something that is aligned with who you are.

Bryan McAnulty:

What's your hottest take on AI and personal branding?

Vince Warnock:

Oh my goodness. Lean in. Lean in hard. Learn hard. Automate whatever the hell you can. AI is there for you. As a marketer, a lot of marketers are very anti-AI because they feel like it does them out of a job. I say, do us out of a job. Empower people.

This is the thing I love about it. Little people who couldn't afford to have a whole marketing team now have a whole marketing team. That's gold.

Bryan McAnulty:

Yep, completely agree. I think we have to all think bigger, because we can do ourselves out of a job so we can do the next thing that nobody thought of being able to do before.

Vince Warnock:

I love it.

Bryan McAnulty:

Awesome. Vince, on the show, I like to have every guest ask a question to the audience. So, if you could ask our audience anything, whether it's something you're curious about or just want to get people thinking about, what would that be?

Vince Warnock:

Simple. What would it be like if you didn't hold back? For a lot of you sitting there, you're probably thinking, I want to launch a podcast. I want to write a book. I want to do all these things, but—and there's always a but. There's always some limitation that you put into that conversation with yourself.

What if you could remove that conversation? What if you could just show up and forget all the insecurity, forget all the self-doubt, forget the imposter syndrome, and go, you know what, I'm just going to do this? How much more could you impact people? How much more could you impact yourself from that?

Bryan McAnulty:

Great thing to think about. Vince, it was great talking with you. Before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Vince Warnock:

I make it really difficult. No, I'm joking. Go to chasingtheinsights.com. That's the home of my podcast. You'll see links to all my books there, links to Business Mind Magazine, links to everything we do, pretty much.

But most importantly, there's a little link there that says, get a free strategy call. If any of you, if any of this has connected with you and you're like, hey, I need help with this, just reach out. I'm always available, always giving free time to people.

Bryan McAnulty:

Awesome. Thanks so much, Vince.

Vince Warnock:

Cool. Cheers, mate.

Bryan McAnulty:

I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 creators at creatorclimb.com. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, check out the Heights Platform YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9:00 a.m. U.S. Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our newsletter at thecreatorsadventure.com. Until then, keep learning, and I'll see you in the next episode.