#48: Master Public Speaking and Communication with Brenden Kumarasamy
Everyone can be a great communicator, so why do we fear public speaking so much?
In your business, job and personal life, it is essential to master your communication skills to become a better leader, marketer, creator.
Our guest today is an expert at public speaking and communication, and he is going to share his secrets on how to become better at sharing our message with the world.
Welcome to The Creator's Adventure where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business.
Brenden Kumarasamy is the founder of MasterTalk. He coaches ambitious executives & entrepreneurs to become top 1% communicators in their industry. He also has a popular YouTube channel called @MasterTalks , with the goal of providing free access to communication tools for everyone in the world.
Learn more about Brenden: https://www.rockstarcommunicator.com/
Bryan McAnulty: Welcome to The Creator's Adventure, where we interview Creator's from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. Today we're talking about how to become a better communicator, whether it's public speaking or simply communicating with those that you care about. Brenden Kumarasamy is going to teach us how we can become better at communicating.
So let's get into.
Hey everyone. We're here today with Brenden Kumarasamy. He is the founder of Master Talk, and he coaches ambitious executives and entrepreneurs to become top 1% communicators in their industry. He also has a popular YouTube channel called Master Talk with the goal of providing free access to communication tools for everyone in the.
Brenden, welcome to the show,
Brenden Kumarasamy: Bryan. The pleasure is absolutely mine. Thanks for having me on.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. So my first question for you is, what would you say is the biggest thing that either you did or you are doing that has helped you achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure Bryan. I, I think for me, when it comes to freedom, which is very different from content creation, I would say it's one product to one audience through one distribution channel.
I think with a lot of entrepreneurs, and the reason they're still stuck in their nine to fives or they run unsuccessful businesses, is they spread themselves too. I think the biggest mistake is they try and do multiple businesses and ideas at once, versus trying to make one thing work at a big scale and then trying out other ideas.
So if you're anything under a million, you should definitely just be doing one thing at a time. So I think what separated me from most of the industry, even if I'm still relatively young in my career, I'm currently 26, is I've been in the same industry for seven years. . It's just at the beginning it wasn't really a business, right?
I was just making videos on communication for fun just for the other college kids that I used to go to school with. And then that later evolved into executives and CEO clientele. But I always stayed in that niche. I never woke up one day and said, you know what? I should make videos on like how to bake a cake.
Right? You know, I stayed focused on that one thing, and I sell one thing to one avatar through one distribution channel. I think that's why we've been able to be successful really rapidly, and that's what I recommend most people do if they want to have freedom.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah, that's great. I wanna go a little bit deeper into that actually, because I feel like other, I've heard this advice before.
And so what about I I would, I would guess I would say two things. So I agree, first of all, and I think yeah, if you're, if you're under a million dollars in revenue, the way to say like, well, I wanna earn more my, my way to get to a million dollars, most likely it's gonna be easier to just focus on that thing that you're doing rather than try to do a new thing.
Definitely. But what will you say about like, the idea that when somebody's like just starting out and they're trying to balance not spreading themselves too thin, but also trying to figure out like what is it the thing that they really want to focus on? So at, at what level is it okay to say like, I want to try these, this many things, or, or something like that before deciding that focus.
Brenden Kumarasamy: A absolutely great question, Bryan. So it's wide to thin, right? So in the sense of if you're not sure what the business is, then for sure try 10 to 15 different ideas and ultimately your decision to figure out which one is the best one is ultimately the one where your customers get the most results and what's driving most of the revenue.
So for example, I'll, I'll give you one, which is a niche within a niche, which is. Trying to make my name as a speaking professional, trying to get speaking gigs and trying to make money that way. That's good. But that income is really seasonal. Sometimes, Bryan, you get the business, sometimes you don't. It's not super consistent revenue.
So yeah, it's probably 10% of the money I make in a year, but it's really hard to consistently make money because there's a lot of event planners and it's really competitive versus coaching. Clients is actually a lot less competitive cuz there's not that many communication coaches out there who are really good word of mouth spreads faster and it's a lot easier to get the sale cuz you're selling one person, not an organization.
So notice how just within that one business there's different directions that you can go into. So I would say the first piece is going. Out of all of the 10 things I could be doing, let's say baking cupcakes, coaching people on speaking you know, starting a gym, you look at those 10 things and you just ask yourself a few questions.
One, what is the skill that I'm the most excited about, that I love to deliver consistently to people? That's the most important metric. And the other two things I would look at is the second, are you willing to do it for a. With the same level of energy that you started it with. And then the third piece, which is more of a sub-issue cuz you can make money a million different ways.
But I think it's something to consider in ponder, which is simply ovs, right? Opportunity Vehicles. But Warren Buffet always says it's not about how hard you row relative to the actual boat that you're in. So of course if you're in technology sales, It's a lot easier for you to make a lot more money because the opportunity vehicle, the market is a lot bigger.
So if you're really debating between two ideas and you're both, you're, you're both really, really good at them and you're not sure which one to pick and you're really passionate about them, then go through opportunity vehicles. But I think for most of the time it's going to be pretty obvious what you wanna do for the next 10 years if you experiment long enough.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah, that's great. All right, so I wanna ask you, were you always, do you feel you were always good at communicating? And can you share a little bit of your background story and how you became a communication coach?
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure, Bryan. So the answer's absolutely not. I grew up in a city called Montreal in Canada where I still live, and for those who don't know, Montreal's a city where you need to try to speak French, which is a language I did not know.
So my whole life, Bryan, not only did I struggle with communication, I had to present in a language I didn't even know. And so I'd look at the crowd and go banjo. And that was my life as a kid. The second challenge is I have a crooked left arm cuz of a surgery I had when I was younger and I, it's still crooked to this day.
So I had a lot of anxiety cuz people would always look in my arm whenever I would give presentations and it would always cause me anxiety. And the third piece is you would think that a communication expert studied comms. Yeah, I got a bachelor's degree in accounting, so definitely not the most suited to be a communication coach.
So what happened was this all was an accident. I never wanted to be a business owner, O'Brien. My goal is to be a consultant at ibm to work at an accounting firm like Pricewaterhouse Coopers, or Deloitte. So I went to business. In accounting, which I graduated in by the way. So I literally have a degree in accounting.
But in college I competed in case competitions. Think of it like professional sports, but for nerds. So while other guys my age are playing football or baseball, Bryan, I was one of those guys. , I did presentations competitively and that's how I learned how to speak. But then as I got older, I started coaching a lot at the students on how to communicate mostly to help them win competitions.
And it gave me the idea for master talk because I realized that everything that I was sharing with them wasn't really available for free on the internet. And here we are a few years later. Awesome.
Bryan McAnulty: All right. So, and like one of the things you're becoming this expert in is the, the public speak. And many people are completely terrified of the idea of speaking in front of an audience.
And you mentioned yourself of having this discomfort and, and self-doubts and all kinds of things. So what can somebody do to kind of get rid of that fear?
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure, Bryan here. Here's what I would start with, which is the fear is never going to go away. There's always some level of anxiety that all of us will have.
It's just at different levels. Let me give you an example. Let's say me and you are having lunch, and Elon Musk calls me and he goes, Hey Brenda, I really liked your episode with Bryan. I like your YouTube channel. Can you coach me? I'll pay you 3 million. Would I be anxious? Would I be stressed out? Yeah, I would be.
Cuz it's Elon Musk. Of course. I would be. And that's really the point I want to drive, Bryan, is there's always a level in which we're all scared. So for me, it's not really something we need to try and remove, but rather a relationship we need to learn how to manage. So let me give you an example. I call this the boxing match analogy.
Let's say one side of the rain is our fear, the anxiety. The stress that comes with speaking. And the other side of the ring is our message. Why is this important to share? Why does this matter to other people? The goal, my friend, is not to remove the fear, but rather make sure that when your message and your fear meet in the middle of that boxing match.
That your message gets the knockout punch and wins the bloody match. And if you think of it like that, you'll always be more successful in the same way. By the way, I had every excuse not to start Master Talk. I was a 22 year old kid when I started making videos in my mom's basement with no money, no clients.
I didn't even know you'd get paid to be a coach. I was just making videos to help people, but the reason I started making videos was for the seven year old girl who couldn't afford a communication coach, and that's still my North star. So even if I wasn't the best in the world, and I'm still not the best in the world, I still a long ways to go.
I was definitely good enough to serve that seven year old girl in the way other people couldn't. Awesome.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, I love that analogy. So like I, I feel like I've battled that a little bit myself, and I didn't think of it quite that way, but I like that because, For me, like I wouldn't call it like a anxiety even at this point really or anything, but I, I don't feel like I, I love to just turn on the camera and record myself.
It's not like the thing that I enjoy doing compared to the rest of my work. But I had that same feeling, I guess, where the message won the fight, right? So I realized I cared too much about this message and about this passion and spreading that. And I feel like it's my duty to communicate that and teach others.
Otherwise, I'm, what am I doing? So I felt I need to do that. It's, it's not about do I feel like wanting to do that? Do I feel comfortable doing it? It's that I need to do that. And so the message one, and I relate to that also because. When I was in high school, I was in a a rock band. I had a band, and I thought to myself what was interesting is I actually wasn't nervous on stage if I was performing.
I actually, I was in choir at the same time like in high school, and I was nervous if I had to do like a, a singing exam or something in choir with just a teacher who I personally knew, but to go and sing in front of a couple hundred people, no problem. And I realized that for myself, the issue was that when I felt like I was being judged in some way, that's when I felt anxious about it.
And I didn't feel that sense of judgment in the, the band setting. And I'm talking about the story now because it made me think that, I think that's kind of the same thing with the message like you're describing where the message won. Because when I was playing my music, that's what I cared about the most.
I didn't care what anybody thought about me, cuz I just wanted to play the music. And so I, I think that's a, a really great example of making sure that if the, the fear and the message get in the ring, make sure the message wins.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Thanks, Bryan. I love that band story. It's great.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. So what would you say are the main components of a great
Brenden Kumarasamy: speech? Yeah. I would say for me, Bryan, a good way of thinking about this to keep it really simple today is one, the puzzle method. So for me, communication is like a jigsaw puzzle. You know, those toys used to play as kids growing up.
As you know, as children, a lot of us, when we work on a jigsaw puzzle, we often start with the edges first. And the reason is because they're easier to find in the box, they're easier to put together. You just stick the corner. Put them all and then you'll work your way into the middle. So why am I telling you that?
I'm telling you that? Because in presentations we generally unfortunately do the opposite. We start with the middle first. We shove a bunch of content in our presentations. We get to the presentation. It sounds something like this. Yeah. So thanks. So not that great. So instead, what we want to do, It's practice like a jigsaw puzzle.
Start with the edges first. The next time you're preparing a speech, just focus on presenting the speech Intro 25 times. 25 seems like a big number, but it really isn't, Bryan, because your introduction is like two minutes and max, so your introduction's like 50 minutes at the very most. That's how much time it'll take you to practice it 25 times.
So like an. Same thing with the conclusion. What's a great movie with a terrible ending? Last time I checked, terrible movie. Same thing for the close. Then work your way into the middle and the middle to not overcomplicate things. Today is simply what's the key idea? What's the main point? If somebody can only get one sentence from your entire speech, what do you want it to be?
And then the last piece to that is three, to defend what are three? Dotes analogy, story, statistics, any three things that you feel helps defend your key idea the most. So let's say as an example, my key idea might be how do you get, how do you convince every human being that they can be an exceptional communicator?
That's what I believe. So then what are the three tools and strategies One. I'll use a personal story. You know, I grew up in Montreal. I struggle with communication, which is all true. So personal story to hook people in. The second idea is tips that are so simple that it's impossible for you not to, not to implement them.
Like it's so simple that a monkey can do it. So anyone can do it. And then the third piece is showing them results, showing the momentum of those strategies, how simple they are, how they can integrate, how they can make sure to create accountability in their life so they don't miss the ball on those tips.
So it's just an example of how you can apply that speech framework.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, I really like that. That, that's a really great point that. The intro is important because this is the first impression that it's going, going to make a difference of if people decide that they, they wanna listen to the rest or, or how they're going to, to judge you about the rest.
And if you mess up the ending, then that's the, that's the last moment that's gonna be in everybody's mind. So you want to get that right and then you can fill in the rest. I like that. And the, the points about the middle are good. So let's say that a creator's giving a speech and they realize somewhere along the way that they're losing the au the audience's interest, right?
What can they do to kind of recover that as they're speaking?
Brenden Kumarasamy: So for me, the perspective I always take with that, Bryan, is a take the loss, right? You we, and the reason I say take the laws is because there's a bigger issue than that specific scenario you described, which is. What's my prep work like prior to the presentation?
How do I make sure that when I get on the stage and it counts that it's impossible for me to fail, or the likelihood of that happening minus a few extreme cases is very, very small? Let me give you an example of this podcast. The reason why I'm not super stressed about any questions a host can ask me, is it because Brandon's special or unique?
Any of that? I just practice an exercise I teach called the question drill, which is every single day for five minutes, Bryan, you ask yourself one question for five minutes about your air of expertise. So day one is how do you overcome your fear of communication? Day two is what tips do you have for introverts?
Day three is how do you improve eye contact with the camera lens? But if you do that every day, For five minutes for a year, you'll have answered 365 questions about your industry. You'll be unbeatable, you'll be bulletproof. So it's the same thing going back to the analogy, the example you gave. So what I would do to prevent that situation from even happening in the first place is you want to split test your presentation with the smaller sample size.
Meaning if you have an audience of 50 people, just practice with your. Practice with like five people that you know and pressure test the presentation before you get there. So they'll point out all the holes so that there's no holes in the, in the real thing. .
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, that's great. And, and I think most likely, like you as the creator, as the speaker, the presenter, you're gonna be able to pick up on those small things of if somebody's losing interest or if, if you didn't deliver something quite the way that you wanted to, whereas they might not even notice it, but just the fact of practicing it in front of those couple people will kind of inform you about that better.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely.
Bryan McAnulty: So nowadays most businesses are in some way moving online if they haven't already. And a lot of public speaking has changed into speaking into like a camera like this. So whether it's a live recording or not. In terms of the technique, what would you say is the difference in training to speak to an audience, in person versus training?
To speak in front of a.
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure. Great question, Bryan. So I'd say it's three main differences. The first one is eye contact. So with eye contact when you're in person, you always wanna move your head around based on the person you're communicating with, so you can look them in the eye. But when you're online, whether you're speaking to one or 10,000 people, you're actually only supposed to look at one area, which is the camera lens.
So you give the illusion that you're looking at everyone directly in the eye. So that's number one. The second one is energy. Let's face it, Bryan, it's a lot easier to show up with energy when you're in person because you can hug people, you can give them high fives, you can throw them in the air. So it's a lot.
You're held a lot more accountable to a higher standard because you have to shower, you have to dress well, you have to put deodorant on. So when you get there, you have a higher level of commitment for the audience that you just don't have when you're online. Like even now as the expert, I'm wearing pajamas.
You know? It's just people don't see it cuz it's just top, you just see the top. So that's the point. It's just, even if you're a try hard, even if you're committed, You still, you still don't have that same level of accountability, meaning get better in person. Bring more energy in person and transfer as much of that as possible back into the online setting.
Sending video messages to people that you love just on their birthday or just to appreciate having them in your life is also a great way to consistently practice energy. Third piece, accessibility. If I'm in front of you and I'm giving a presentation and I say, Bryan, I want your feedback. How can I do better?
You're right in front of you. There's no friction. You'll just go, oh, let's go have lunch over here. Let me give you a few pointers that I think you could work on Brenden, so there's no friction there. But when you're online, Bryan, it's really difficult to get people engaged into what you're saying and to get their feedback because the second, the zoom call, the riverside, the squad cast, the anything ends the whole every, the whole audience just disappears.
So you need to make an extra effort. You need to get on calls with people, build relationships, so you get the feedback you need to get better.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. All right. Great advice. Yeah, I think feedback is super important and it's interesting to, to talk about it from, I guess I'm so used to in, in my work hearing about it in the sense of product feedback, in doing research calls, discovery calls with customers, things like that, but also how important it is to do with content and.
Yeah, you have your your comments maybe you can go and look into. But w the way I like to think of it, not, not just for content, but for any kind of feedback, is usually there's some amount of truth in what the person has to say, or, or in most cases even, they're just usually right. And what I mean by that is I think there's a lot of times when you look at some kind of feedback, somebody tells you something, you read something and you think, I'm not really sure about that.
That doesn't, that doesn't really match my style, my vision, whatever it is. In most cases, there's some amount of truth to that, and a lot of other people would have the same feedback that they do. And so I think if, if you get that feedback, my, my piece of advice to add to that would be to really listen to it and let your ego go to the side a little bit.
To think about, well, even if you thought something was really right, well what? What could be truthful about what they really had to say?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Well said.
Bryan McAnulty: I love that. Thanks. So a lot of our audience is composed of these independent entrepreneurs, course Creator's coaches, consultants. Since you're a successful coach and online educator, can you share some advice for Creator's on how they can improve maybe their students' experience in their courses, for example by improving the content, maybe the way they structure their, their videos or their presentations.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. Bryan. I would say for me a lot of it is tactical, but I would say the principle that works the most is get your clients to improve the student experience. I'll give you an example. When I did my fifth cohort, We're, we're starting our 10th one in a few weeks, so I've made a lot of mistakes from the first went to the 10th cohort.
I would say the biggest idea I got was in cohort five. So how, how our programs work is we pair up people, it's like a buddy system so they can all meet each other and work together. Let's end a speech or an exercise. But what I hadn't thought of was I only gave them each one buddy. But the challenge that that model had, that my clients told me later was that if one of them is sick or doesn't do the program or finish, they'd have a buddy anymore.
So I didn't know what to do. And then a few of the students kind of just create an experience on their own. They just started pairing up with each other. So I was just asking, how did you get results so quickly? And let's say Tina Aria would say like, oh, I just paired up with a lot more than the partners you assigned to me.
Mm-hmm. I was like, that's so great. So then in cohort six, all the way to what we do now, we actually get the client to choose how many buddies they want. They can pick any. People they want. So some people ask for like seven buddies. So now we have like a system in the backend that allows for that pairing to happen versus if somebody picks seven or one.
But the idea, the principle I want to share, Bryan, is not really that people should have multiple accountability buddies. It works really well for the transformation that we're delivering our clients. But I think for the people listening to this, the advice would be listen to your customers, ask the right questions.
Like if you had to change one thing about the program, what would you change and why? And always ask yourself, what is one idea that I can implement from every group that I start from at least one of the students? A couple of other principles that have worked as well that I like as a frame that I teach people is, The first class worth the investment.
What does that mean? Let's say you got a 12 week program. Okay. I'm a lot better at live, so I don't have a lot of recorded content in the stuff that I deliver. Let's say 12 week process and the investment, let's say is $3,000. To be a part of that experience as an example, the frame that I, I always like to think about is how do I make each class worth the entire investment of the.
Program. So they get three thousands worth of transformation from the first second they enter the experience. So that way the program is worth 36,000 if you have 3000 of value. So the question you ask yourself for each class is, what is the $3,000 insight? What is the $10,000 insight? What is the thousand dollars insight from the 90 minutes that my client is investing here?
And that really gets you to raise your focus and honestly cut the stuff that isn't directly leading to results Really. One last question I'll add, which is a little bit controversial that I like to use, is how do I get my clients more addicted to my programs? Almost like cocaine. And the reason I like that framework is because if you make your programs as addictive as cocaine, but in a good way, Where the client is forced into the transformation, you come up with new creative ideas to really accelerate the student experience.
I'll give you one example of that. All of the one-on-one calls with me in the, my programs are actually a secret, so I don't tell them that when I sell them the offer, but when they get into the program, they go like, what do you mean it's a secret? And I go, well, you have to book the call to find out. So it just creates more mystique and novelty in the transformation.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, that's great advice. And I, I don't think it's really controversial at all. Like that's one of the principles really that we kind of built Heights on. Not the idea of like specifically saying, let's make it as addicting as cocaine, but let's make the , let's make the student engagement. As as addicting as possible in a good way.
Because if you think about it, like my thought was, okay, we have social media. We have these video games where they have these experts in psychology thinking of how can we keep the person on the platform for the longest time possible? And so my thinking was, well, why not apply those same principles, but do it good for a good reason to help the person get a positive result in their life for something they're trying to learn or accomplish?
And so, yeah, that was exactly our thoughts and, and I would say like, I mean, we try to encourage Creator's to do that as well. I'm curious, what do you think about some other ways that maybe you can make your content entertaining? Because. What I think a lot of Creator's also struggle with is on one hand, like you're there to teach somebody your result.
It doesn't have to be the most entertaining thing, but you wanna have some amount of entertainment with it and making sure that you're being, when you are giving the the steps that somebody has to go through, that you're being concrete and direct enough that you're not just talking about all these other unnecessary things.
Because like for example, we always tell everybody like, it doesn't matter how much content is in your course, it just matters that you get them to the result and you actually want the smallest amount of content to get them to that result rather than extra content. Cuz that's, that's going to work against you.
It's gonna be hard for people to, to stay engaged with all that. And I think we've had other Creator's that they gave the advice of saying like that you're the expert in your field, you're super passionate about your field, so like speaking or software or whatever it is. But the student you're teaching, maybe they're not quite there yet.
They wanna learn this thing, but maybe they're not quite there yet. So, talking about all these, these buzzwords and the, these things that really get into detail about what, you know, it's maybe something that they're, they're not quite there with. So being simple and, and giving only the, the pieces of advice or tasks that somebody needs to accomplish.
And then trying to make that entertaining in a way so that they'll, they'll actually decide to keep moving forward rather than saying, I'm gonna go watch Netflix. So with all that said, what, what's another tip that you would say to kind of like, keep people engaged? Because I'm curious what you have to say as someone who is, is public speaker and, and focuses on having to deal with that engagement and keep things entertaining.
Brenden Kumarasamy: for sure, Bryan, and it's still something I'm working on. I would say the, the, the principle is obsessive focus on the result and, and one frame that we look at all the time is couple that we aren't the best at. We have to still keep working on attendance rate of classes is one KPI to track. Another KPI to track is how quickly is someone getting results in the program.
So when I started batch one, it would take like four weeks and now it takes like an hour. Right. So it went down really quick from like, but now the question is how do I get it done to a minute? So I'm always, even if I, I might not be able to, I like pushing myself. Cause if I get it from four weeks to one hour, it's like, okay, now we're really talking here, really getting results for people.
So I would say the, the main idea. Of how to get more results for clients goes back to that obsessive focus, but also go breaking down entertainment into education, entertainment. I think the program development starts with education first, which is you kind of just botch a program. You create something that you feel will get.
Results for people. And then every time you start a new batch, I always go back into the 12 week sequence, which is my entry level product, and I go like, what can I swap out? What didn't people get results on? So specifically what I'm asking myself, Bryan, to your point is not, did people get value from it?
That's, I think a dumb general question cuz what does value actually mean? I think the real question I'm asking myself is, are people getting tangible results? And if so, what types of results are they? . So I'll give you a simple one. Let's say we take the random word exercise, which is like the basic tip that's available on my YouTube channel.
Pick a word like cup, like cell phone, like ceiling, and create random presentations out of thin air. Well, doing that exercise is really important for the people in our ecosystem, cause that's the first kind of pillar of the whole game. So if people don't do that exercise, Don't go anywhere, but they all say they love and it gets them results.
Cuz I know in my mind now that I facilitate the transformation enough times, if somebody does the random bricks says a hundred times and we create an accountability system to get them that result, their communication will, will expedite really, really fast. So that's a a super crucial component that will always stay in my entry level.
Product. Whereas there's other classes that are really interesting in nature, like I used to have like an advanced relationship building course where I'd teach people how to shift energies from one environment to another. Sounds good. On paper. But whenever I touch base with my clients, two months later, they forgot the entire session.
They don't apply it. So I think the, the key I, the key point here to keep it simple is what are the top 10 insights that you think clients will get 10 x results from, from the investment? So for us, it's things like the random word exercise, the value. PowerPoint karaoke question drills, sending video messages.
So those five insights alone are worth way more than the investment of the program. But it's not about sharing those insights. It's about making sure we create that platform to make sure people get the results and actually end up implementing them. One last thing I'll give on this and I'll throw it back to you, is what I have found to be the most powerful psychological effect so far.
Cause after split testing so many different things fo. Is the biggest thing that gets people results. So I'll give you an example, Bryan, that I think you'll find super fascinating. Cause I, there's not a lot of people who have, who are doing this in the space, especially not in my space, is the reason we make the call secret.
Bryan is really simple. So let's say executive one, let's call her. Julie gets on secret, call one with me. She learns what it is. At the end of the call, what I have Julie do is I have her send a 45 second video message to the entire group just telling them what they thought of Secret Call one. But that call is designed to blow people's minds.
So when they send the video they go, oh my God, Brenden's call. Like This program is really good and you, it is like, if you haven't booked this call, you're. But hearing it from other peers, now everyone's feeling the fomo. Like, what, what the hell is in this like first secret call? So they all start booking it and a hundred percent of them always book the call.
Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, that's great advice. I think I think a lot of people struggle with actually getting everybody to, to book that call, even though you're offering it as part of your course, even though people are paying for. So, yeah, that's a good show. Yeah, exactly. . Yeah, and I agree. The, the FOMO is really powerful.
Really powerful motivator. So like for us I don't know if you're familiar with, we have a challenge feature, and the idea of that is similar to an online course, but unlike an online course, everybody's going through it at the same time. And so the lesson releases, instead of being dripped for based on when you signed up, it's that same calendar date for everybody.
And then not only does the challenge have an end date, but the lessons themselves can also expire after a certain set number of days. And so unlike an online course where it's like, okay, I'll do it at my own pace, all that, the challenge, which works really well as kinda like the introductory product, gets you in there because you say, okay, I gotta do this first lesson because this is when it's available and everybody else is doing it.
And if I don't do it in three days, it's gonna be locked, then I'm gonna miss. And having these kind of like bite sized lessons in that challenge will really help people build a habit to get to the point that then when they're ready to buy your big flagship course, now they're, they have this habit of engagement and they're used to logging in saying, all right, I'm gonna do today's video.
I'm gonna do today's task, whatever it is that they have to go through. And so, yeah, for us we've seen that that's a really powerful way to keep people
Brenden Kumarasamy: engaged. Love that really fascinating feature.
Bryan McAnulty: All right, so I've got one final question for you, and on the show, we'd like to ask each of our guests to ask a question to the audience.
So if you could ask anything to our audience, something you're curious about, something you want them to think about, what would that be?
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure. Bryan. I would say, my question is how would your life change if you became an exceptional communicator? A lot of this industry is so focused on the fear and the stress and the anxiety around speaking, whereas for me, I, and I think I've, I've built the brand purely on this, is really the idea that, Hey, wait a second, like.
Communication, like saves the world, it makes our life better. It's the way we talk to our family, it's the way we raise our children, it's the way that we make new friends. So let's embrace that. So I would encourage your audience to ask themselves that question, how would your life change if you became an exceptional communicator?
Because the answer to that question is what will ultimately push you to even do a lot of the exercises we've talked about today.
Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think you're completely right. Communication's so important. That's, that's really, I, I feel like a lot of my work has, has either grown or, or required in some way to, to learn how to become better at communicating.
Whether it was like starting as a a graphic designer and then a web designer as a web designer. Learning how to like, communicate what the client wants to the software developer and be like the translator in between there and make sure everything's clear. So like it. It's not only business, but yeah, as you said, relationships, life, just everything opens up doors.
Absolutely. Awesome. All right, well thanks so much Brenden. Before we get going, where else can people find you online?
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure, Brad, this is a great interview. Thanks for having me. Two ways to keep in touch. The first one is the YouTube channel. Just go to Master Talk in one word and you'll have access to hundreds of free videos on how to speak.
And the second way to keep in touch is to attend one of my live communication trainings. I do a free one over Zoom every few weeks so people can see me apply a lot of the tips on a Zoom call live and in real time. So if you wanna jump on that, go to rockstar Communicator. Dot com. Awesome.
Bryan McAnulty: Thanks so much, Brenden.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Pleasure is mine Bryan.
Bryan McAnulty: If you enjoyed this interview and won the chance to ask questions to our guests live, tune in on Tuesdays when new episodes premiere on the Heights Platform Facebook page. To learn more about the show and get notified when new episodes release, check out The Creator's Adventure dot com.
Until then, keep learning and I'll see you in the next episode.