Bryan McAnulty [00:00:00]:

Have you ever felt proud to be lazy? Well, today's guest Natalie Palmer certainly is. But don't let that fool you because Natalie has turned her self proclaimed laziness into a successful career. She's a top Airbnb host, founder of a boutique vacation rental management company, and the co founder of the largest women's STR conference, Level Up Your Listing Summit. And if that's not enough, her podcast, No Vacancy, is in the top 1% worldwide. Today, Natalie joined us to share how she built multiple income streams by embracing boundaries, doubling down on personal branding, and focusing her expertise in the real estate niche.

Natalie Palmer [00:00:38]:

I I don't know how to brand a short term rental, so I'll bring on an expert for that category. And I think maybe just kind of that humility and, like, admitting that I don't know everything, but I can connect you with the right person. I'm lazy. So I just don't wanna don't wanna do those things. I'll figure out how to get someone else to get it done for me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:53]:

Today, we're gonna learn the power of establishing a personal brand, why creators should niche down, and how to grow a podcast to the top 1%. Hey everyone, I'm Brian McAnulty, the founder of Heights platform. Let's get into it. Hey, Natalie. Welcome to the show.

Natalie Palmer [00:01:12]:

Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:15]:

Yeah. My first question for you is what would you say is the biggest thing that you did or are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?

Natalie Palmer [00:01:24]:

Oh, that's a good question. I mean, this is kind of a broad answer, but I guess I'd say the Internet and, like, social media, email, having a website. It's kinda crazy to think about I I have 3 kids at home, and I work from home. And just thinking about the reach that I've had and being able to help people every day just literally from a laptop and a keyboard. So I would just say that that accessibility.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:49]:

Yeah. That's great. Yeah. There's it's incredible how much opportunity there is on the Internet and, like, just to have something out there that people can potentially connect with you, purchase from you, is so powerful. So you describe yourself as proudly lazy. Can you kinda explain how this mindset has contributed to your business success?

Natalie Palmer [00:02:13]:

Yeah. This is something I've definitely had to re reframe in my own mind. Growing up, I I have a younger sister, and she was definitely the overachiever. She's got a master's degree. She's a data scientist now. Like, she's the one that my parents brag about at at their cocktail parties that they go to. And then I was always the one who I just would jump from one thing to the next. I'd get bored of things very quickly.

Natalie Palmer [00:02:37]:

I really wanted things to come more easily, and I just never subscribed to the idea that I would have to be working 40 plus hours a week and not retire until my sixties. So my parents always kind of compared me as being the lazy one, and it wasn't until after college that I think I started to realize maybe there's kind of a method to this madness. And being chronically lazy really made me want to optimize things and, like, set up optimizations very early on in my entrepreneurial journey. As soon as I had to repeat a task more than once, it was like, okay. We're figuring out a way to optimize this or outsource this or get this off my plate. And I'm really proud to say now I, like, really wear it as a badge of honor. I work, 18 hours a week. I have helped 3 days a week for 6 hours each day, and that's it.

Natalie Palmer [00:03:26]:

And the rest of the time, I'm with my kids. And it gives me so much time to just think and brainstorm about what I wanna do, and and come up with new ideas for the business. But, like, working on the business, I really like, I'm I'm lazy. So I just don't wanna don't wanna do those things. I'll figure out how to get someone else to get it done for me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:03:46]:

Yeah. That's great. Yeah. For myself, I I feel like now, more of a traditional 40 hour ish work week is good for me, but I have a schedule where, like, usually, most of Thursdays, I take off, and then I'll work for a little bit on Sunday instead because then, like, there's no communication with team or customers or anything like that, so I can, like, really focus on things. But I think for me, at least, it doesn't make sense to definitely work more than that. And if anything, I would work less because, like you said, the time outside of the business, like, that's what allows you to reflect and be more creative. And I think that I'm able to be more productive when I am working by giving myself that instead of saying like, oh, well, it would be better if I found a way to work a couple extra hours here or there.

Natalie Palmer [00:04:37]:

Totally. Totally. And I think another thing is limiting your work hours too. It really forces you to prioritize. We've all heard of the Pareto principle. Right? Like, 80% of results are affected by 20% of your actions. So that is a huge mindset I carry with me too. It's like when I sit down, I'm like, I have 18 hours this week.

Natalie Palmer [00:04:56]:

Like, if something is not bringing an income or or moving the lever in any way or helping build my brand, like, it's off the list. That's it. We're just not pursuing it right now. Maybe in the future, when my kids are older, I'll up my work hours. But for right now, I, like, really have to focus on that 20% that's gonna have the biggest results.

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:14]:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think that's so important for entrepreneurs, and it's more common, especially when starting out that it's like, oh, I can work whenever. So I'm gonna respond to that email really late. But having a a schedule and being strict with yourself is really, I think, kinda necessary. And for me, like, I track every minute of when I'm working. So, like, my timer right now, I can tell you, it says 16 minutes.

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:38]:

I I took a break right before recording this interview. I came back on, and I track every minute just to know, like, how much am I really working? Did I actually work this, like, today, or was I, like, busy doing something else? And making sure that the time that I am spending working is really spent on the right things.

Natalie Palmer [00:05:56]:

Yeah. It's tough because you'll feel like you've been productive all day. And then it's like, what did I do? All I did was respond to emails today. Like, you know, and as soon as you clear your inbox, you've have 10 more people that that responded in that meantime, and now that takes up more time. So that's really good that you're tracking every minute. That's actually something I need to do. I'm more like, okay. I have my 6 hours each day.

Natalie Palmer [00:06:16]:

I wanna fill those. But tracking by minute, I need to get on that level.

Bryan McAnulty [00:06:20]:

Yeah. I just use, like, a a simple timer in, like, my menu bar till they just turn it on and turn it off. And I've just built a habit of doing that. But I'm not, like, so organized that I'm saying exactly, like, I was on this website or I was working on this specific thing. It's just really to count the hours and and be more aware of that.

Natalie Palmer [00:06:40]:

I like it. Yeah. Because I wanted to do I know a lot of people do the time blocking, like, literally down to, like, categorize this was spent on emails, this was spent on my, you know, whatever bookkeeping, yada yada, marketing over here. And it just seems so overwhelming. I'm lazy. Right? So I, like, I don't wanna do that. But I like your method. I think just tracking how many minutes you actually spent working, that's like baby steps into the true time blocking by category.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, the the I've tried some tools to, like, automatically track categories and things. Like, rescue time is, like, a older one I remember using. But there yeah. It's too much effort to, like, put every little thing in. And so I I think if you just track the minutes and the hours overall, that's enough to start to realize, okay. I did work 6 hours or 8 hours today, but actually, what did I do? I was just stuck in emails.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:31]:

Like, how can I make sure that doesn't happen so I can work on the things that I want to?

Natalie Palmer [00:07:36]:

Mhmm.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:38]:

So you're an expert in personal branding. What role do you feel your personal brand has had behind the growth of your vacation rental management business?

Natalie Palmer [00:07:48]:

Yeah. It's been huge. Well okay. Actually, let me back up a little bit. To be honest, for my, vacation rental management business, I don't really think my personal brand has helped me at all. I grew very organically with that business. I started managing 1 condo, and then it was really word-of-mouth. Like, neighbors in the condo complex would ask if I could manage their property.

Natalie Palmer [00:08:10]:

So that business kind of started very organically like that. But I started my personal brand to start teaching other people how to do Airbnb and short term rental hosting, and that is where I really feel my personal brand took off. I now have a podcast. I have an annual women's short term rental conference that I cofounded for 300 plus women, every March in Scottsdale. I get a lot of speaking opportunities now and, that a lot of, brand campaigns that I get to work on and stuff for technology or softwares, different tools in the short term rental space. So that's kind of where I think that the personal brand part really exploded. But, I've really just I haven't had to leverage my personal brand at all, I will say, in my management company. I could tap into it if I wanted to grow that, but I'm having so much more fun now with the podcast and conference side and, the course creation side that I kind of am leaving the property management just at the size that it's at.

Bryan McAnulty [00:09:07]:

So I'm curious. I think everybody would want to know, like, how did you identify the short term rental niche as, like, okay. This is my area of expertise. This is something people wanna learn about. And then not only realize, okay. I want to create content, build a course and things around this, but then also promote yourself and grow your personal brand.

Natalie Palmer [00:09:30]:

Yeah. There was no, I wish I could say that there was this, like, really thought out marketing plan, you know, what we're doing in q 1, q2, q3, q4. Absolutely not. How it started was I was already managing some Airbnbs, and it was just friends and family that were like, how do you do that? People don't trash your place. Like, you're just letting strangers into the property? So I started making reels on Instagram just kind of addressing those pain points, and it took off from there. I would say I had, like, a 1000 followers at the time. It was just friends from high school and college that were following me. And as soon as I started talking about short term rentals, I don't know, the algorithm, like, picked it up or something and my account grew very quickly from that point.

Natalie Palmer [00:10:12]:

So at that point, it was like, okay. Clearly, I've I'm identified a need that people are interested in and I'm good at speaking to it. I'm getting high engagement, so I just kind of doubled down on that. And then I would say from there, it was really a matter of just listening to my audience. If they kept asking me multiple questions about something, I was like, okay. Let me make, like, a mini course on this, you know, subtopic, like, how to screen guests appropriately. If I was getting a lot of questions on how to design a rental, how to optimize my listing, I was just kind of, like, making resources for these one off questions. And it got to the point where there were so many questions.

Natalie Palmer [00:10:47]:

I was like, alright. Let's add a weekly podcast, but I still want more from you. Do you have a a program or a mentorship or something where we could work more in-depth? So that's how that started. So every single pivot I've made in the business has really just been responding to what my audience has asked for.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:07]:

Yeah. I think that's really good to do. I'm curious, like, for somebody wondering, though, like, how can they go and replicate that? What would you say is something that you feel you did really well that helped facilitate all that growth? I guess it sounds like maybe the consistency of, like, realizing, okay, this kind of post is working. Like, I'm gonna continue making these.

Natalie Palmer [00:11:28]:

Yeah. That's definitely a big one. I really paid attention to the metrics, and I saw, certain topics that took off better. And that's what I would double down in or even, like, the type of caption, this seemed to resonate more or, the length of reel, like, what kind of content was being picked up that way. And I would really just, you know, keep keep doing the things that were working and ditch the ones that weren't. So that was a big thing. But I would say, I think one of the biggest things that really helped me was I how do I frame this? Like, I'm never afraid with my audience to act like I don't know something, or to admit that I don't know something. And I think a lot of people, once they decide that they're gonna be a course creator or a coach in a certain niche, they feel like now they have to have all the answers, and I've never pretended to do that.

Natalie Palmer [00:12:15]:

I'm very, very transparent that, hey. Maybe I don't know about, the best midterm rental strategies. My my specialty is short term rentals. So if I wanna add a module to my course about midterms, I'm gonna bring on a friend who I've had as a guest on my podcast who's really good at that. And then that would help me leverage their audience too, because now they can promote to their audience, hey. I'm contributing to this course. So I'm very, very big on, sharing expertise and bringing in different experts and stuff. I I'm totally fine to admit that I don't have the answers to this.

Natalie Palmer [00:12:46]:

I've done that with people who wanna know about how do I, promote my listings on social media. That's not me. Like, I I I do personal branding. I don't know how to brand a short term rental, so I'll bring on an expert for that category. And I think maybe just kind of that humility and, like, admitting that I don't know everything, but I can connect you with the right person. I think that that's gone a long way. Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:13:06]:

Yeah. I think that's really powerful. And people feel there's, like, impostor syndrome and feeling like, okay. I wanna prove to everyone that I and I know things. Otherwise, they're not gonna wanna buy from me. Yeah. But I completely agree with you. And so the last course that I made, like, my main business is building the software platform, not courses themselves now.

Bryan McAnulty [00:13:27]:

But, like, I've helped more than 10,000 people build courses at this point. And so, like, you would think, like, okay. Well, I I get it. Right? I don't I don't have to ask my audience because I just know how certain things should be. Right? But I do ask my audience, and it's been so helpful that, like, the last time we did something, I was brainstorming with chat GPT and figuring out, like, what what's the the angle of, like, how people would see that they connect the value of the result that we wanna provide here. And so, like, what is it that people are looking for? And we came up with, like, 3 top ideas. And then I just asked my audience and I said, okay, guys. Like, ChatCha BT said this one's the best.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:06]:

What do you guys think of, like, these 3? What do you wanna learn? And it was surprising to me because you would think like, oh, oh, I should be able to figure this out. Like, I I've had this audience for a while. I've been communicating with them. I should probably already know it, but I found all these interesting things that I hadn't thought about. And if I spent more time on it without just asking, maybe some of those things I would have guessed or figured out myself, but I'm sure that there would be other things that I would have just missed. And it's so much easier to just say, hey, guys. Like, can can you help me with this? And can you tell me what you're looking for and how powerful that is?

Natalie Palmer [00:14:45]:

This literally just happened to me. I'm reframing one portion of my course right now, and I wanted to ask people what topics they're interested in. And I threw this one in, honestly thinking it would get the least number of responses, but it was actually one of the most popular topics. But I said, how many of you are interested in learning about investing outside of real estate, but maybe investing in businesses or or other opportunities? And that was the most voted on topic, which really surprised me because I feel like my whole audience came to me for real estate. But it just goes to show, like, if that if your audience follows you for that, they're probably interested in other types of investments too, but I've just always had this identity that I'm short term rental girl, like, that's what people are following me for. So I'm really excited. Now we're gonna add, like, a whole portion on how to figure out how to invest in in growing businesses, and I'd love to team up with people I know who are developing softwares and tech in the short term rental space and maybe get in as early angel investors in that. But that's one I I honestly don't know what made me, like, throw that topic in, but I'm so glad I pulled on it because it was overwhelmingly the most popular choice.

Bryan McAnulty [00:15:47]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I think people will tend to just get hung up there for a little bit and either either go with their kinda gut, which may be wrong because it didn't ask their audience, or just be, like, wondering, man, what what's the best answer for this? But you can just ask, and it it becomes so much easier.

Natalie Palmer [00:16:05]:

And it's fun that way too because then when you launch whatever you've been working on, it's like you guys voted on this. Like, here it is. You you really I I feel like the audience is, like, evangelized in that. Like, they're like, we were part of this. Like, we voted on this topic, so we wanna see it come to fruition rather than you just throw something at them. And it's like, hey. Give me more money. I came out with another module.

Bryan McAnulty [00:16:24]:

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So, yeah, you said that you kind of enjoy what you're doing now with the personal branding and the and the course and everything. What what is it that you think made that so enjoyable versus, like, just focusing on the the short term rentals?

Natalie Palmer [00:16:43]:

I think it's probably just the ability to talk to more people. I really, really like, I found that I really do like coaching and mentoring, and I find that very fulfilling. I still do love short term rentals. I manage a portfolio of 10 properties, but it's different with, you know, the guests that come in and check out. I really try to give my guests space during their stay, and it's like, I'm here if you need me. You can reach out anytime, but I'm not gonna bug them. I know some Airbnb hosts are really big on, like, tell me all of your exact plans. Like, we'd love to know.

Natalie Palmer [00:17:15]:

And I just I kind of leave that in my guests, like, the ball's in their court to let me know how much they want. And so, you know, and after they check out after, like, 2 or 3 days, that's it. I really never hear from them again. But with some of my students, we've been working together for years now, and I've seen them invest in properties, flip them, renovate them. Now there's continued questions of how do I optimize my listing or I had this this problem with the guest. It's just such a more fruitful relationship, and, like, I can really see, like, the impact that we're making together. So I find it much more rewarding.

Bryan McAnulty [00:17:46]:

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I agree. It's something really fulfilling. And you've got this podcast, No Vacancy, that is in the top 1% of podcasts worldwide. So I think that's super impressive. And I'm curious if there's anything you can share of, like, what you think helped to achieve the growth of kinda success in the podcast.

Natalie Palmer [00:18:09]:

Yeah. Here's my biggest tip for this one, and it's kinda counterintuitive. But the most success I've seen with the podcast is when I invite on lesser known guests. So I think a lot of podcasters that start feel like I have to get the big name guests. They're gonna be the ones that share it to their huge audience of a 1000000 people, and that's how I'm gonna grow. And what I found is some of those bigger name guests, they first of all, a lot of them have, like, active brand contracts sometimes, and they can't necessarily be as transparent as you want them to or even as they want to. And the other thing is for a lot of those kinds of creators, I think that the novelty of being a guest on a podcast has worn off a little bit. They're not as eager to share the episode or even if they have a big audience, it's like their audience has seen so much from them already.

Natalie Palmer [00:18:56]:

Whereas, when I invite lesser known guests who just have a unique story to tell, but maybe they're not huge on social media, but it's somebody I met at a conference or something and I just thought they'd be a great person to interview, those people will share the audience, like, far and wide with their, will share the episode far and wide with their friends and family because I think they just it's like, woah. I was on a podcast. This is so cool. Everyone go listen. They're so proud of it. Like, those are some of my top most shared episodes, and I think a lot of also, there's a lot of podcasts about short term rentals. I'm not the 1st to do it. And so a lot of the guests you'll hear, it's like, I've already heard them on this podcast or this one.

Natalie Palmer [00:19:31]:

The content gets recycled a little bit. But when you find that unique guest who might not be on social media and, like, you've really gotten to extract, like, good info out of them, I love being able to be the one that, like, brought someone forward and and highlight their story. So that's my biggest tip. Like, don't be, intimidated that I don't have the pull right now to get these big name guests because that's, I don't think that's how I grew my show at all. I think it was really finding people with great stories to tell.

Bryan McAnulty [00:19:59]:

Yeah. I think that's a great tip. And, I heard the same thing, from Andrew Warner. He's his he had this podcast business. He'd interviewed over 2,000 entrepreneurs, and I had him on the show. And I was wanting to learn from him about, like, interviewing. How can creators interview people make their own podcast? He said the same thing that, like, he's he's had the founder of Airbnb on his show and and things like this.

Natalie Palmer [00:20:24]:

Oh, that's still a goal of mine. Don't get

Bryan McAnulty [00:20:26]:

me wrong. And he said that the most popular episodes were these lesser known people who are not really famous in any way, but they they had these interesting stories. And I completely agree, especially nowadays, there are so many podcasts and the bigger names are on so many podcasts that it just kinda doesn't even make sense for them to tell their audience, oh, look. I was on another podcast just like yesterday and the day before. And, so even if they did, it's it's not gonna get the same exposure or attention as, like, maybe when podcasts, like, first started growing, in popularity. And yeah. So I think that's, an excellent tip.

Natalie Palmer [00:21:09]:

Yeah. It's cool to be the one when maybe someone in their personal life has been asked over and over, what do you do? What do you do? How do you do it? And then to be the one where they finally sit down and give you 45 minutes undivided attention, now they can tell people, like, if you've wanted to hear my story, here it is. And I don't know. I take so much pride that, like, I'm the one who finally got them to to spill their guts.

Bryan McAnulty [00:21:31]:

Any any tips you would have for somebody if, they say, okay. I wanna do this. I want to go forward with the podcast. That sounds great. I wanna try to interview these people that may not be known about. How do you ask the right questions to somebody who's maybe not used to being interviewed or is on a podcast like this?

Natalie Palmer [00:21:49]:

Oh, that's a good one. Okay. I I will I wanna be totally honest here. It it comes very naturally to me. Like, this is just I don't know. I I do think I have a good knack for asking the right questions. So I think that that helps. But I think if this is something that maybe you do need more practice for, what I would do is listen to other interviews and podcasts.

Natalie Palmer [00:22:09]:

And if you feel like you got a good answer to a question or you just learned something new from that guest, go back and listen to how the interview asked it. Like, just study the same, you know, it's the same for social media. Like, a lot of my strategy with reels that are engaging is which reels am I pausing on in my scroll? Which ones am I liking? Which ones am I sharing with my friends and sending and saving? And take notes of what drew you into that content. So I would do the same thing. If you feel like you pulled out a really good or if an interviewer pulled out something really good from a guest, go back and listen to how they frame that question.

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:42]:

Yeah. I think that's great advice. So anything else you would share about how having this podcast has helped you either to build your brand or kind of expand your reach and connect with, like, the wider community as a whole?

Natalie Palmer [00:22:57]:

Yeah. I think one of the most underrated parts of having a podcast, it's, everyone wants to think about how can I monetize it, or how can I just have such a big podcast? But for me, one of my favorite parts is how many people it's given me access to. There are so many people that, you know, we're course creators, so we know that we charge for our time. And usually, if you wanna pick someone's brain for an hour, you they'll send you their Calendly link and you can book a time and have a whole conversation, or consultation with them. But for me, it's like, hey, do you wanna be a guest on my podcast? And it's been a great way to get people everybody wants the exposure. So everybody will come on that you ask pretty much. And, I think it's a really great way to kinda, like, pick someone's brain selfishly, but, you know, get get access to people that you normally wouldn't be able to otherwise. So that's a huge part of it too.

Natalie Palmer [00:23:46]:

Like, even if your your podcast doesn't take off right away or it's not monetized from day 1, I think that there's other, ways to measure success or, outside of monetary income, you know, or exposure. There's other ways to, determine if it if it's a successful venture, and I think that's one of them. Just the people that you get to talk to.

Bryan McAnulty [00:24:05]:

Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree with that. I've said before that I would still be doing this podcast even if it had, like, no marketing value to our business just because I get to sit down and and talk with interesting people all the time.

Natalie Palmer [00:24:15]:

Yep. I say that I say that same thing too. I'm lucky that mine mine took off, you know, and it is monetized now and has its own brand and everything. But even if it didn't, I just love these kind of conversations, and I would still be asking people to come on and, you know, talk to 5 listeners.

Bryan McAnulty [00:24:31]:

Mhmm. What advice would you give to other creators out there who are looking to establish a strong personal brand, regardless of the niche that they're kinda trying to focus on?

Natalie Palmer [00:24:43]:

I guess I would say just keep sticking to what feels right for you. There's a couple things I haven't done that I think a lot of creators would say was the wrong move. I'm not on TikTok at all for one example. It just never that app has not appealed to me. I feel like I would waste so much time on there. And I know everyone says you should be on all the platforms and have mass exposure, but that's just one that I've really I really feel like I would just end up wasting time on it, and I don't necessarily think my audience is there either. I think it's mostly Gen z, and they might not be in a position to invest in real estate anyway. So I'm happy sticking with Instagram as my main platform.

Natalie Palmer [00:25:18]:

So I would just say kinda do whatever feels right. I mean, we just talked a bunch about podcasting. But if podcasting feels really intimidating to you and you don't wanna get behind a microphone, like, you you don't need a podcast to build a personal brand. Maybe for you, I don't know, try YouTube Shorts or maybe TikTok is the right move. So even though there's so much noise on there out there on what you should do, just kind of I I would say stick to what feels right. People are gonna sense if you're starting something that's inauthentic to you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:25:46]:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Alright. Well, I have one more question for you, and that is on the show, I'd like to have every guest ask a question to the audience. So if you could ask our audience anything, whether something you're curious about or kinda wanna just get people thinking about, what would that be?

Natalie Palmer [00:26:02]:

Yeah. I would ask the audience to think about what niche you might be an expert in. When I got started, I really didn't even think of myself as an Airbnb expert, but just the questions that people started asking me, like I said, oh, you do this? Like, you're not worried about guest trashing your place? And I realized I am now a source that people are turning to for info on this. Think about what that is in your life that people are consistently asking you things about. Is it like a recipe or how you lost the baby weight so quickly or, how you're able to get your laundry done? Like, whatever it could be. How, I mean, I don't know, how you grow your tomatoes in your backyard. Like, there's something that people are asking you questions on and that right there will tell you that that's, you start putting it out there. And I think if you see that the social media response is there, that's your niche right there.

Bryan McAnulty [00:26:54]:

Alright. Well, Natalie, thanks so much for coming on the show. Before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Natalie Palmer [00:26:59]:

Thanks so much, Brian, for having me. The best place to connect with me is just on Instagram at nataliepalmer. And then from there, you can find links to my podcast, my annual conference, and any courses that I'm currently launching.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:13]:

Alright. Thanks, Natalie.

Natalie Palmer [00:27:15]:

Thank you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:16]:

I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 creators at creatorclimb.com. If you enjoyed this episode and wanna hear more, check out the Heights Platform YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9 AM US Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our newsletter at thecreatorsadventure.com. Until then, keep learning, and I'll see you in the next episode.