Bryan McAnulty [00:00:00]:

What does it take to build a podcast with over 50 million downloads? For Tony D’Urso, the answer was not chasing every trend, posting non-stop, or trying to go viral overnight. Tony is a five-time bestselling author, veteran entrepreneur, musician, and host of The Tony D’Urso Show, a globally recognized podcast that has reached more than 50 million downloads and featured guests like Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, Kevin Harrington, Wesley Snipes, and many more. But before Tony became one of the top podcasters in the world, he left behind a successful high-paying corporate career to build something that was more meaningful. Today, Tony is going to share how he grew a massive podcast audience through long-form conversations, consistency, and depth at a time when most creators are being told to make everything shorter, faster, and trendier. So how did Tony build a podcast that lasted, grew, and became a real business asset? Today we're going to learn how Tony left corporate success and built a podcast with over 50 million downloads. Why depth, clarity, and consistency can beat chasing trends. And how creators can build trust, grow an audience, and create long-term influence through podcasting.

Tony D’Urso [00:01:04]:

I think one mistake is that you cannot please everyone. You've got to have your niche and what you're trying to do. You've got to know your vision and your purpose. Because if you don't know that, you're going to try this and try that and try this and try that and not necessarily bring value to your audience. So you need to know that you're going to help somebody. I think that's very strong, stronger than we would think.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:27]:

Welcome to the Creator's Adventure where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. Hey everyone, I'm Bryan McAnulty, the founder of Heights Platform. Let's get into it. Hey Tony, welcome to the show.

Tony D’Urso [00:01:45]:

Hey Bryan, thanks so much for having me on. I hope I can give some good value to your audience and help them on their journey. This is great. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:55]:

Yeah, I appreciate you coming on. Really excited to talk with you and learn from you here today. My first question is, what would you say is the biggest thing that either you did, you are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?

Tony D’Urso [00:02:10]:

Now, the last part of that sentence is the key. The freedom to enjoy. And I think, Bryan, one of the biggest things I did, I think the biggest thing I did is I did the exact opposite of what we were told to do. Basically what we're told to do, I think is really kind of like the road to slavery. I'm going to explain. You know, it's like the road to slavery, but it's got sugar coating on it. And you think, hey, this is good. It tastes good.

Tony D’Urso [00:02:38]:

I'm going to go do this. And, you know, I didn't just buy a house and then rented it and then used that money to buy another house and rented it and then use that money to buy an apartment building and so on and get all full of debt and everything. I just didn't do that. Despite that was the prevailing thought of, hey, you know, do that. And that's because there are major issues that happen in the economy. And if you take a look, it's happened just about every decade or so. Something has totally come across, come along, and it's just changed everything.

Tony D’Urso [00:03:13]:

You think things are going good, you think you can be invested in all these businesses or assets, and then something happens, and then boom, one major issue happens and now wind up owing a billion dollars. I mean, this has happened to so many people. They, you know, they're indebted to the bank or they go bankrupt, or they're on their knees pleading all the time asking for help. And it's so much stress and worry. And what I did different is I thought, well, yeah, it's possible I could zoom up and make good money and there's millionaires made all the time. But I just didn't like that idea.

Tony D’Urso [00:04:01]:

What I did, Bryan, was I simply paid off every single debt and every single bill I could pay off. I just made sure I didn't owe anybody a penny. Now, it sounds simple. You've heard that, too. That's the other, the opposite, the opposing school of thought. But I got to tell you, it takes courage and nerves of steel to pull that off and just not buy things that you want or vehicles or toys or whatever. And when you get to that point, then you can really enjoy yourself because then you can do anything and everything. You know, if I want a house or a property or a vehicle or a car or whatever, I'll pay in cash. It's done.

Tony D’Urso [00:04:33]:

Then I don't owe anybody anything aside from, of course, annual taxes and fees and things like that. That's a nuisance. And there's many. You guys have read their books, you've gone to their seminars, you've listened to their podcast, all these, and it sounds great. And it's, you know, it's enthusiastic, it's inspiring, it's motivational. Oh, wow. I could be a millionaire by Monday by doing this and this and this. But you can get so invested it can really hurt you. And you can become too vulnerable.

Tony D’Urso [00:05:42]:

Now, it's a super simple rule, but if you do that, if you just pay off everything you have on everything, and there's a way to do that because some of your bills, including your mortgage, could seem too much. But there's a simple strategy that I use to pay everything. And again, people that say to pay off everything have this rule on how to pay off based on how much interest you owe. It doesn't go that fast. It can get you stuck. So I worked out how to do it, paid everything off.

Tony D’Urso [00:06:24]:

And you know, there's a freedom here, Bryan, because when you owe people money, including your mortgage, your car, whatever, it gives them, the people, a right to email you, to text you, to phone you, to upsell you, to nudge you, to remind you, to bug you, to bother you. Man, it's a nightmare. I never want that. I never want that again. So, so truly freedom, because it's your fault you said that word. The freedom to do anything you want is there when you don't have a slave master that you've put on without realizing it's really a slave master.

Tony D’Urso [00:06:56]:

I know everybody, I got caught up in it. Oh, everybody. You know, I had a very large house on a golf course, custom built. I mean, I've been there, done that. You know, I know the routine and the status and how everybody's excited, except I was the least excited because I'm the one that had all the bills, but everybody else was happy. But so when you get rid of all that stuff, then it changes your life, man. It really does.

Bryan McAnulty [00:06:56]:

Yeah, that's really interesting to hear. My personal philosophy is that freedom comes first. That you should build things around that being the goal first, not some thing that you one day hope to attain. And so in a lot of ways, I feel like I can really relate to what you're saying. And also like in my business, I built the software company Heights Platform and I purposely really wanted to avoid taking on investors for that. I wanted to as much as possible figure out how can I do this myself? Because it is what I enjoy.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:30]:

And if I have to answer to investors and then they're telling me, no, you have to do this because this is going to get us paid back faster, that didn't feel like freedom to me. So I completely relate in that way. But at the same time, I wonder because I'm not completely without using debt. I'm definitely leveraging debt at some points. And while it would be nice to not do that, I could see why I could understand that argument. I also feel that at some point, like, should there be a compromise made?

Bryan McAnulty [00:08:36]:

Or maybe a better way to say it is that if we agree that we want to achieve freedom and have that as the priority, how do we approach getting there and getting the other things that we need quick enough? Because a lot of the reasons where I think somebody would say, okay, well actually I want to do this strategy of investing in all the houses or something. We've had people on the show who have talked about that or I want to get investors from a software company because then we can go grow a lot quicker. So how do you handle or work through the time that it would take to like pay off that debt, for example?

Bryan McAnulty [00:08:39]:

Real quick, Bryan here. You know me as the host for this podcast, but what you might not know is I'm also the founder of Heights Platform. It's an all in one platform that over 10,000 creators have used to build their online courses, communities and digital product businesses. We recently added some awesome updates to Heights AI to help you turn your idea into a viable business. Heights AI can build entire product offers, review your content, and even coach you on how to grow. You can try for free for 30 days. Links in the description. Now back to the podcast.

Tony D’Urso [00:09:08]:

I totally understand. It's a very reasonable and excellent question. And I just want to make it very clear. I have nothing against people that want to catapult and shoot off and do it. It's just my point is I've interviewed CEOs, founders, millionaires and billionaires, usually for almost like 11, 12 years. And some have bootstrapped and some have borrowed money. So I get it, you know, and I'm not trying to say don't ever borrow money, but I'm just trying to say that you have to be wise of what you're doing because there can come a time that you're in over your head and you don't know it.

Tony D’Urso [00:10:07]:

And I said this all kind of condensed it in the first answer to question. But something can come along that you don't expect and you don't think is going to happen and it happens. You know. Yeah, we all know the pandemic. Well before that there was a housing market crisis. And you know, I just saw a video a couple weeks ago, a lady, a young lady, 23, 25, she was a millionaire and she bought, she did it buying homes. Well, that's great. But if she bought a home during the housing crisis or the pandemic, she'd be upside down and on the streets.

Tony D’Urso [00:10:44]:

I've seen it happen too many times. So you have to, not to. I'm not putting fear in there, but saying you have to know what you can handle. Even if your projections don't turn out the way you think they're going to turn out, you need to have at least a plan B, or. That's what I'm saying. And I'm going to answer your question. But I just want to make it, you know, I'm not saying never borrow money. You know, just you have to know. You really kind of have to know what you can handle.

Tony D’Urso [00:11:20]:

Even, you know, I've had people offering me, you know, here's $10 million, Tony. I said no because I knew the dangers of it based on what I had to deliver and if something would happen, I would lose everything. So you kind of have to know all the things. So I'm kind of giving that condensed. But with that, to answer your question very head on, if you need to borrow some money, does that mean you have to answer to people that they're going to change your business?

Tony D’Urso [00:12:01]:

I've run into CEOs, founders that have taken money and then they lose the control. Now here's somebody like you, you built it. This is your idea, Bryan. This is not somebody in Silicon Valley that you didn't wake up today and said, hey, I'm going to do this thing. No, you did. You put your blood, sweat and tears in it. You worked it out. And so you have to use that trade off because the money, oh, here's some money, Bryan. But I get 51% or whatever it is, or I get voting rights, whatever. The thing is, you have to really study that and not let the money hurt or impact your integrity or your character on that.

Tony D’Urso [00:12:41]:

So it's a case in case point. You asked me a question that is hard to answer for all fields. I haven't taken on investor money to do what I do. And what I did, fortunately, was something you can do with on your own pocket. But if you have to build something, I mean, tell me a business today, a household name, you know, Chevrolet, Pepsi, Ford, AT&T, McDonald's, they all took investor money and here they are today. So I'm so, I get that. You just, I'm just saying it has to be done wisely, because you're going to trade your life, your passion that you started a company, you're going to trade that now for some money, and you're going to have meetings and people can be in control.

Tony D’Urso [00:13:33]:

So kind of, you know, how's that going to work out? So it's not an easy question to answer because there's a lot of industries at large, but that's the way I would kind of look at it. If there's no other way, then, then, then take it, but get good counsel.

Bryan McAnulty [00:13:33]:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And yeah, it's different for everybody. Depends on what you really, truly want. The way I like to say it is that you can't have what you want if you don't know who you are. So you gotta figure out who you actually are. And if you want to build the next Chevrolet or something like that, and if you do, then that maybe is the path to do it. But for a lot of people, maybe that's not what they want, and it would be a bad outcome if they accidentally maybe went that way and things went wrong.

Tony D’Urso [00:14:05]:

Yeah, I think so. Money's good. It can be enticing. There's no question about it. Sometimes it's a lot of work to raise funds, whether you SBA or you go to angels or you go to investors. I mean, I did a fundraise to start a company before I podcasted in the year 2000, and I raised $3.25 million from friends and family to start a company. And I didn't know any millionaires or billionaires. These were all small chunks of change. But it added up, and I really hustled. I mean, I seriously hustled.

Tony D’Urso [00:15:31]:

So we raised the funds and started a company, and I was the VP. I became the VP, Sales and Marketing. And that's how I got into a very highly educated, if you want to say it for back then, highly educated into the lead generation aspect of marketing, which I've then used that into my podcast to grow, which is a different story. But we built a company and we rolled it out, and I did that for about seven years, and there was good, bad, and indifferent with it. So I speak from a little bit of reality when I talk about taking on investor money. You have to answer to people, and if they're not happy, they're not happy.

Tony D’Urso [00:15:55]:

So, so I get that, you know, just you have to realize that that can happen if you take the money. But of course, it's like just because someone offers you a million dollars to help you with your business doesn't mean you get to put that in your pocket or your personal bank account. So don't let that intoxicate you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:15:55]:

Yeah, yeah. So I really want to talk about your podcast because you've created a podcast that has 50 million plus downloads and was ranked number one in the world worldwide on Chartable rankings. And in a world where there's so much content and it's getting shorter and faster, do you still believe that content depth and length still matter?

Tony D’Urso [00:16:18]:

You know, I'm really glad you asked that question because it's an answer that I had in me and you gave me a quick heads up that you would ask something about that. And I thought about it and was like, you know, I think it's a trick. And I'm going to explain. I think you're all being misled on that. I could be wrong, but I see it all the time and I think it's a lie that people's attention spans are getting shorter. I see it in the media. People report it back, oh, they have the attention span of a fish or you have the attention span of seven seconds. And I see these things.

Tony D’Urso [00:16:57]:

And again, I've got the marketing roots. What I do see, Bryan, is I see people, they're being distracted. They're being manipulated so much that they don't have enough attention. I know there's not an oxymoron. I'm not going back on what I'm saying. It seems like they don't have enough attention to dissect and savor and really study what's being said. Now I'm going to explain some points on that because I gave this a little bit of a thought.

Tony D’Urso [00:17:25]:

For example, in case anyone didn't know, when I was growing up, we used to have very simple content on cereal boxes. You know, when we would eat our cereal in the morning, not a whole lot. And when we were eating, I used to devour all the content on that cereal box. I would read everything and I'd still be eating the cereal and I'd flip it over and I'd reread everything because I was looking for something to do while I was eating. Now, do you think that that's possible today?

Tony D’Urso [00:18:08]:

Because the amount of stuff hitting us is unreal. Because, Bryan, the distractions are distracting us from other stuff which is distracting us from other stuff. So I don't think, my opinion, that it's the attention span, but the amount of distractions that have come up that are vying for our attention. Now, a good case in point is if you ever live in a big city and then you go to a small town and you live there for a month or two for real, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Tony D’Urso [00:18:43]:

Bryan, in the big city, people are rushed and pushy. You driving around, they want to get in. It's so surreal. In a small town, Bryan, you drive up to a stop sign, someone else, and someone else is sitting there at the stop sign. You drive up to a stop sign, they'll wave you on. The courtesy of people because they're not disturbed. They recognize that there's someone there that's probably has to go somewhere or they're just nice because they're not being so distracted.

Tony D’Urso [00:19:28]:

So their personality, their inner self comes out a little bit more. This is my take on it. You go in lines, you know, at the store, a person you never met, Bryan, you start a conversation with them and you're having a delightful time with somebody you've never met before. It just doesn't happen in a big city because, oh, I got to go here, I got to go here. I got to go here. It's really, really true.

Tony D’Urso [00:20:25]:

So I think it's the distractions that are growing. So now I'm going to kind of answer another way because I have the marketing idea or the point of view as well when you communicate to people. And I think this has helped my show a lot to get through that distraction because you, you know, I've interviewed people, they've got their cell phone, they're looking at their watch, whatever. I'm not talking about you, but I'm just, you know, they get distracted. And I think one of the things is if you can communicate in your post or your content to get the person curious, that's your end goal, is to get the person curious.

Tony D’Urso [00:21:06]:

I've made this mistake too. You know, these really long posts and this and that and saying all about my show and this podcast with this person and is so great and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't impinge, it doesn't engage. I say enough to get the person curious. Oh, Tony spoke to this heavyweight champion who's got this great personality on how to be wise and grow your common sense. Boom. By getting the person curious, you can then get them to click through because that's what you want. You want them to click through.

Tony D’Urso [00:21:35]:

So it's by getting them curious, by giving them just enough to engage, because that's all that you want your content to do, is you want to direct a person. You know, I don't try to sell you and ask you, here's a post, give me $100. I'm not trying to sell you. Here's a post about something that's changed me. And I'm not, this is not a gimmick. I'm not lying. I'm not doing a clickbait, too much of that out there.

Tony D’Urso [00:22:26]:

I just keep it real. And that really helps, I think. And I get what I get because my communication is targeted to entrepreneur, to business owners and so forth. So I wouldn't, I would expect that category to get what I'm saying in short amount of words. So it's not a matter of I said something that you could read in seven seconds because it takes longer to read. But I'm trying to engage you because I think what I have would be very helpful for you, your business owner. And I've learned something in this interview about leadership that I think is going to change how you interact with people that you work with. I think you're going to click that. That's what I think. And so I kind of go that way with that.

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:32]:

Yeah, got it. So I'm curious, when you originally came up with this idea and you're deciding to make this show, did you know it could become this big? Was your goal for it to become this big or did the vision kind of evolve over time?

Tony D’Urso [00:22:49]:

When I first started podcasting, I went from that company I mentioned that I had started, and then I got an offer to start my own company doing marketing and lead generation. Exactly what I was doing for the other company. So I did that. And in that seven year period, we had four major fires like the pandemic in marketing. And every time it just took my business down to the knees, down to the ground. And I got really tired of it. And I was looking for something that I could control myself.

Tony D’Urso [00:23:33]:

What is it that I could control, I could do anywhere in the world? We've got an Internet. What is it that I can do? And I looked and I searched because the last straw for me was going in my office on a Monday, one of my clients, I'm doing $1 million a year in sales on, and they canceled. Why? What happened? And, well, another federal protocol came down. Regulation saying, from now on, you've got to do this or you've got to do that. And it was the fourth time in seven years, and I got tired of it.

Tony D’Urso [00:24:09]:

So I looked for something that I could control. And I kept hearing this word, podcast. I'm like, what is this podcast? And when I found out, Bryan, I'm Italian. So I said, hey, I'm Italian. I can do this. I can talk. So I did the silly thing that I don't necessarily recommend, but there's part I do recommend is I studied anything and everything I could find about it. Now, I didn't, you know, have any radio experience. I didn't know any entrepreneurs. I surely didn't know any millionaires or billionaires. It was a totally different industry.

Tony D’Urso [00:24:57]:

But I really had this idea of if I could bring to people like you and the members of the audience, those that have made it. Now you say, Tony, you know, well, Tony, we can do that ourselves. And I'll counter: you cannot read everybody's book, listen to everybody's podcast, take everybody's class and course and go to everybody's webinar and fly to everybody's event. You just can't. In fact, I've been podcasting for 11 years, talking to business leaders and people that have made it. You're going to listen to 11 years of content. It's a little tough.

Tony D’Urso [00:25:54]:

So I feel that I could curate this to an audience. And so the one thing I said I don't recommend doing is I just jumped out. The Italian in me, live one hour a week. That part I don't recommend, but the part I do recommend is I created, I wrote something called the Vision Map. And I wrote it for me. I wrote it for me to figure out, well, here's my vision. How do I do it? And I read books. I've been to school, I've been to university. I don't know if my diploma is showing up there or not, but I've learned all this stuff, but now you've got to apply it.

Tony D’Urso [00:26:36]:

And it's really changed the trajectory of my life. And just give you an idea. Before that, I was three decades in what I call corporate America. And if I count 10 years as a paper route boy, I could say I've had three decades as an entrepreneur, so I know a few things.

Bryan McAnulty [00:26:36]:

So then what is the Vision Map, then? And how did that help you grow the podcast?

Tony D’Urso [00:26:40]:

The Vision Map is it helps me take what's in my head and turn it into something real. You've heard of vision casting, but it's just one step. You've heard of Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Arnold Palmer, even Jim Carrey, but it's the application of the vision. I read a book by Jordan Adler called Beach Money. He talks about just that one step and I realized that it was incomplete. I realized if you read the book, you're welcome to read his book and learn about vision casting, but you could go sit on your couch every day and eat your favorite snacks and watch Netflix all the day. And your vision's not going to get accomplished by itself.

Tony D’Urso [00:27:31]:

It doesn't get legs and move. So, you know, I looked at, well, you know, how can I take, how can I measure this, how can I grow it? And how can I take an idea and build something meaningful? And I worked out again, all my experience and knowledge that the vision is the key thing. Now the pundits again will argue with me on the debt control, and now they're going to argue with me on the vision because they're going to say, the purpose is key and I get it, but you need your vision first.

Tony D’Urso [00:28:52]:

And a good way to look at it is if I said to a child, you say to your, if you have children or nephews, I do as well say, go out and play. They're not going to say, why? What's my purpose? They're going to run out and play. They've got that vision. So when you're creating your business or improving, it's, what do you see yourself? How do you see yourself for the vision? And I'm kind of going to explain these points because people get them confused. Now, the dictionary says a vision is the ability to think about or plan the future with imagination or wisdom. And what it really means is, is you're seeing the future before it really physically exists.

Tony D’Urso [00:29:42]:

You know, there's a difference between someone who says, hey, what do you want to do when you grow up? I want to start a business. Oh, that's wonderful. What do you want to do? Oh, I'll do something online. I don't know. Well, they don't have a vision, they have a wish. When you have that vision, you can see now mentally, you can see what it is that you want. So I did that and I wrote out just like Jordan Adler did in, I think it was chapter three of Beach Money, what is my life?

Tony D’Urso [00:30:19]:

I should tell you this part about him because Jordan did the job, followed through. My Vision Map follows through all the steps to give full credit to him on that part. Other people have written it. It's not, you know, Jordan wrote his vision because at the time, he was a failure. He wrote his vision only he was a failure. He was down in the dump. So he spent a couple hours in the park writing it and then he kind of forgot about it, kind of. And then a couple years later, this is the juicy part, Bryan. A couple years later, Jordan is moving.

Tony D’Urso [00:30:55]:

And in the move, he sees this piece of paper that, you know, you're picking everything up and he pulls it out, looks at it, reads it, and he gets down on the ground and he starts crying. Starts crying. Why? What happened? What was on the paper? Well, that was a piece of paper when he was in the park. And there's a certain way to do it, which we'll get into in a moment. And reason he was crying, Bryan, is because Jordan Adler was moving into a brand new house. He had the girlfriend of his dreams. And at that time, which was like, what was that? That would be like the 80s. At that time he was making a hundred thousand dollars a month. That's something to cry about.

Tony D’Urso [00:31:47]:

So it really hit home and I really studied that and devoured that along with all the other information I have. So I wrote my vision for my podcast. What does it look like? You know, what do I see? I described it. What am I doing? Who am I helping? How am I helping? What people are saying about it? Am I solving a problem? What impact am I making? Do I have an office? I mean, I wrote it down. What's the product look like? What's the podcast look like? That's a good question. You know, do I have customers? Am I selling something? I got extreme clarity on the vision.

Tony D’Urso [00:32:46]:

Just like the child running outside to go play. And if you do it as a dream, it's impactful. If you do it as a dream, it really hits home. If you do it with something else and try to have other deliverables and measurables and content, you get it muddied up because there's a point in the Vision Map. My Vision Map is like an upside down pyramid. And the vision is like the broad general line. And as we go through the map, there's only eight steps. It takes you all the way down to a fine sharp point. And it really helps.

Tony D’Urso [00:33:13]:

Doing that step really helps you work out who you just saw yourself being in the future. I mean, it's powerful. And I think most people don't take the time or won't take the time or never take the time to sit down and really work that out. It takes some time. It's not just five minutes. And because of that they drift. They'll do this, they'll do that. Oh, try this, try that. I'm raising my hand before anybody else. I was one of, let's try this, let's try this, let's try this.

Tony D’Urso [00:33:46]:

When I was in marketing, way back in the day, people said you take something, you throw it up on the wall and you see what sticks. So there was a lot of, try this, try that. I get it. And guys, vision is not money. Vision is what you see, what you see yourself doing in the future. It's not what you have in your hand. It's not the result, it's what you're building. You know, if I said, hey, what do you want, Bryan? You're going to start a new business teaching people stuff? Well, that's wonderful. What do you want? You go, Tony, I want a million dollars. No, that's not a vision. No, that's incomplete.

Tony D’Urso [00:34:05]:

What are you building that's going to create such a revenue stream? What's the product? What's the service? What system? Who's the audience? Are you transforming anything? So there's that difference. And so this is something, you know, I can walk people through it. And my material, some of my material walks people through it. But you got it. You're nodding your head a bit and I think you're getting it. It's not difficult to understand. Once you. The second part is purpose, which I think people. I've been told that I'm wrong. Fine. Purpose.

Tony D’Urso [00:34:29]:

Purpose, like I said, the child running out, you know, why do you want to go out and play? Because I want to. Right, okay. Purpose. The dictionary says purpose is the reason for which something is done or created. So it's the reason why. So it's why you're doing. So why are you doing your business, Bryan? This is where it kind of almost gets emotional and it keeps you moving when things get difficult.

Tony D’Urso [00:35:40]:

Because your purpose, your why you want to do your business is why you got up in the morning when you first started your business and nobody was knocking on the door giving you money. Perhaps, perhaps not. You did it with your own pockets, with your own resources that you had. And that's because the purpose pushes you through that step and it'll push you through no money, setbacks, slow disappointments, another pandemic, baloney things, or I say baloney because it could be anything. Housing market, shortage, war, anything could happen that we don't know about that can leave us vulnerable.

Tony D’Urso [00:36:19]:

So the purpose is what pushes you through, especially when you may feel like quitting. And a really good way to look at it is when you tie that like why you're doing it, you're not doing. You didn't do your job, Bryan, I will bet you you did not do your job because you wanted to be a millionaire. I bet you that if you wrote on your Vision Map, you didn't say I want to be rich, so I'm going to do this because you probably wouldn't have created the quality that you've created and the reputation and the relationships that you created if all you wanted to do was take money.

Tony D’Urso [00:36:19]:

Because I've seen it in my day, people starting business, not that they don't do it today, just to make money, it doesn't last. It's a flash. So there's something that has to be attached to it. My wife, my kids, my family, whatever. I'm helping others. God, this is a difficult area for people. Let me help walk them through this. You know, I'm going to build this legacy.

Tony D’Urso [00:37:03]:

And for the sake of a very simple concept, if the vision is doing, right. So let's say the vision is like I'm driving. Well, purpose is not a great concept. But you get it right away if it was the gasoline. If you know your vehicle's in your garage or in your driveway right now and if there's no gasoline, it's not going to work. You're not going to go anywhere. You're just not. Your motorcycle, your car, your bus, whatever. But so purpose is kind of like that gasoline.

Tony D’Urso [00:37:27]:

It allows you to take that vehicle and go and do what you want to do. That's why I say it comes second. Because if I've got a five gallon thing of gasoline, it's not going to get my business going. You know, just having that as the purpose. But if I've got the vehicle and I could put gas in and drive myself somewhere now, I stand a better chance.

Bryan McAnulty [00:37:27]:

Yeah, so far. Yeah, it's a great analogy. I think it's unfortunate that many people, I think not only do they not really discover the vision, but they don't discover the purpose either. And so they, unfortunately, a lot of us think in like, almost the complete reverse that I need to or want to make money. And this is what they believe. And so they chase that in some form of another. Maybe they're successful, maybe they're not. But even if you are successful with achieving that, then you end up at this point that, wait, I don't have a motivation to continue with this, because you need the purpose and you need the vision.

Bryan McAnulty [00:38:30]:

So if you have the vision and have the purpose, it's kind of like, would you say, like, the vision is almost like the spark that connects you to the purpose, which can then keep you going. And then if you have the purpose, then you continue with it. That money becomes a byproduct of those things completely.

Tony D’Urso [00:38:30]:

There's eight steps in the Vision Map, and there's another step which kind of ties it together. But to answer that point, the vision is like, you're outward facing. I am going to start. I see myself doing this podcasting and interviewing millionaires and billionaires and people that are well known in their category that are willing to share how they did it. That's like outward facing and inward facing is the purpose. I want to do this because I'm an educator. I like to connect people and curate and give them what they need today.

Tony D’Urso [00:39:46]:

In fact, my interviews are oriented towards what's happening in the world. You know, it may take a little while for it to go out after we record, but it's pertinent. It's what's happening in the world. It's not what's happening in the world in 1980 or whatever the person did. It's, you know, even if the person did something years back and is on my show now, I orient like I oriented to now, so it has application. So that Vision Map is outward. Purpose is: this is why I got to build this. This is why I want to do the business. This is why I'm going to do it. This is why, you know, I used to get nobody paid me to podcast.

Tony D’Urso [00:40:09]:

I got up every day excited with no money because I was going to podcast. It just, you know, that's when you got the right purpose. If you get up excited and nobody's paying you money, you know you're on a good thing.

Bryan McAnulty [00:40:09]:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Now I want to kind of get into a kind of, like, lightning round of some quick answer questions. First one, yeah, try. I understand maybe some of them are going to be difficult to condense, but if you can keep it in like, five to ten seconds, ideally, that would be great.

Tony D’Urso [00:40:33]:

Oh, five to ten seconds. Got it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:40:33]:

So what is the biggest mistake that people make when trying to grow a podcast?

Tony D’Urso [00:40:40]:

There was my five seconds. That's a tougher one.

Bryan McAnulty [00:40:52]:

Yeah.

Tony D’Urso [00:40:52]:

I think one mistake is that you cannot please everyone. You've got to have your niche and what you're trying to do. You've got to know your vision and your purpose, because if you don't know that, you're going to try this and try that and try this and try that and not necessarily bring value to your audience. I think in what I've said so far, it's all about bringing something to them, which is why I started podcasting. So you need to know that you're going to help somebody. And I think that's very strong, stronger than we would think.

Bryan McAnulty [00:41:29]:

Do you think that most creators today are chasing attention instead of building trust?

Tony D’Urso [00:41:35]:

Yes, because I see so many posts out there, so many posts out there, and I can read a post and I can tell you if AI wrote it or not, because you can. You just get to know these things and it's just, like, too much. I wish it would just get more real.

Bryan McAnulty [00:41:55]:

What is one uncomfortable truth about podcasting that a beginner would need to hear?

Tony D’Urso [00:42:02]:

The money does not come right away. It takes time to build. But if you stick with it, if you've got something good, you can really make a good thing for yourself.

Bryan McAnulty [00:42:16]:

All right. And then kind of along the same lines, can a podcast still grow today without having to suddenly go viral?

Tony D’Urso [00:42:24]:

Yes, I think it's easier today than ever because there's more opportunity today. That took five seconds to answer. I could expound on anything I've said.

Bryan McAnulty [00:42:35]:

Okay, yeah. But, yeah, we'll keep going. What would you say? What is one thing that successful people understand about clarity that most people seem to miss?

Tony D’Urso [00:42:50]:

When you're sure of yourself, whether the way I think of clarity is for me, if I am sure of myself, I don't have to force you or sell you or yell or cajole you that I'm right or to go my way because I know what I'm doing is correct. Think about that.

Bryan McAnulty [00:43:11]:

I like that. And if somebody wanted to build a podcast that's going to last the next 10 years, what should they stop or maybe start doing immediately?

Tony D’Urso [00:43:23]:

They should do immediately what they're told not to do. Because I've seen enough where it says, it says don't follow your passion or don't go with what you want. You could be a cashier or an accountant or a cook or, or working, selling vehicles, or you could be doing a myriad of things, but you love gardening. Do the podcast on what you love and grow that. Your passion will come out. Nobody's going to pay you to start, but you're going to start seeing great dividends in it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:44:01]:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, that's how I base all the things that I do. And I think that the thing that people misunderstand, that people get scared about, especially in this world of AI, is they think, first of all, oh, there's competition, somebody's doing that thing. Or, oh, there's people tell me there's money in this other thing. Or, oh, people can just ask AI for that. But I always tell people that nobody is you. Nobody has your unique experience and your unique knowledge, so you have no competition in that sense.

Bryan McAnulty [00:44:33]:

And if you can be yourself and show the things that you care about, that's where people are going to be able to connect to that.

Tony D’Urso [00:44:42]:

You're absolutely right. Absolutely. And if you can develop your own identity, which having your purpose really does that, it's a byproduct. Once you know your purpose, it develops an identity that develops your brand. I never expected, Bryan, that I would be known as, you know, the Larry King of today or whatever people say. I never thought of it, never expected. I did dream it, though. But you start building yourself in your brand when you do the Vision Map.

Bryan McAnulty [00:45:19]:

Yeah. So, Tony, on the show, I like to have every guest ask a question to the audience. You could ask our audience anything, whether something you're curious about or kind of just want to get people thinking about. What would that be?

Tony D’Urso [00:45:32]:

Can I hear their answers? Because I would love to know, how can I help them? I am grateful if I got feedback saying, hey, can you find someone in this industry to interview? Or that industry? Or we like these questions, but could you ask, you know, how does this apply today to today's entrepreneur type question? I would love feedback on my shows. Absolutely. And responsive on that.

Bryan McAnulty [00:46:02]:

Okay.

Tony D’Urso [00:46:03]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:46:03]:

That's awesome. Yeah. Everybody, if you're watching and listening, either leave those in the YouTube comments or on Spotify. And Tony, this was excellent talking with you. Before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Tony D’Urso [00:46:19]:

The simple place is my website, tonydurso.com. You can get the newsletter there. And the newsletter gets you the Vision Map draft of the eight steps so you can get something right away actionable. In fact, a new thing is coming on them that helps you work out your vision, your purpose, and your objective to these very good points. Very easy. It's all free and you can find me in all the key social media. I know there's 23,687 social media platforms out there. I'm teasing a little. I'm on all the big ones so I'm easy to find. Instagram, Twitter, X, LinkedIn, those are. I'm on there all the time. And Facebook, just Tony D’Urso, search for me. It'll come up.

Bryan McAnulty [00:47:10]:

All right. Awesome. Thanks so much, Tony.

Tony D’Urso [00:47:12]:

I thank you so much. It was great to be with you. Thank you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:47:17]:

I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 [email protected]. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, check out The Heights Platform YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9am US Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our newsletter at thecreatorsadventure.com. Until then, keep learning and I'll see you in the next episode.