#79: How to Use Narrative Marketing to Boost Sales with Macy Robison

Welcome to The Creator's Adventure where we interview creators from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business.

Today, we have Macy Robinson joining us to delve into the world of narrative marketing and storytelling. Macy Robinson, a teacher turned marketing consultant, shares with us the power of storytelling and how it can transform your marketing strategy.

We'll learn about the StoryBrand Brand Script, an invaluable 7-part framework that helps clarify your message and resonate with your customers.

Macy emphasizes the importance of understanding your target audience, solving their problems, and positioning your product or service as the solution.

Macy Robison is the Director of Certified Guides for StoryBrand where she helps equip hundreds of StoryBrand marketing guides and agencies across the globe with the tools and training they need to build the business of their dreams.

As a marketing and personal brand strategist, she has been responsible for helping clients launch New York Times best-selling books, reach millions of followers across their social media platforms and email lists, and produce podcasts with a combined 4.5 million downloads.

Learn more about Macy: http://macyrobison.com


Macy Robison [00:00:00]: But what is the most powerful is when you invite customers into a story, when you position yourself as the guide and not the hero of the story, you make your customers the hero of the story. because at the end of the day, we're all our own hero of our own story.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:14]: Welcome to the creator's adventure where we interview creators from around the world hearing their stories about growing a business. Today's guest is gonna show us how to properly position your brand story. Hey, everyone. I'm Brian McAnulty, the founder Heights platform. Let's get into it. Hey, everyone. We're here today with Macy Robinson. She is the director of certified guides for Story Brand. where she helps equip 100 of stored brand marketing guides and agencies across the globe with the tools and training they need to build the business of their dreams. As a marketing and personal brand strategist, she has been responsible for helping clients launch New York Times best selling books reach millions of followers across their social media platforms and email lists and produce podcasts with a combined 4,500,000 downloads. Macy, welcome to the show.

Macy Robison [00:01:09]: Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:11]: Awesome. So my first question for you is, what would you say is the biggest thing either that you did or you are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy.

Macy Robison [00:01:22]: Oh, wow. That's a great question. I think, the biggest thing I did was to just have some courage and faith in myself and what I knew I I feel like I'm kind of an accidental entrepreneur. I'm I'm now working full time for Story Brand, which is the certification I acquired to kind of kick off running my own marketing business, working with personal brands and and authors. but I'd been a teacher. I'd been a photographer. I'd done all these different things, and felt like this is a path I really wanted to follow to help people figure out what they were good at, figure out how to build a business around their intellectual property. and it really was just making a decision and taking a chance on myself I think a lot of entrepreneurship, even if you don't maybe consider yourself an entrepreneur, is just making decisions and and continuing to learn and move forward. So I think that was the biggest thing was just saying, no, I'm gonna go for this. And and one thing has led to another, and it's been a really, really great journey.

Bryan McAnulty [00:02:27]: Great. I like that. So can you start by sharing then, like, your journey from, I think, like, originally, you were becoming a teacher to becoming director of the certified guides here at Story Brand. Like, how did that whole process work? if you could sum up all those years and everything.

Macy Robison [00:02:43]: For sure, I am actually, my degree in college, I started out as a musical theater performance major and then switched to music education got my master's degree in education and top middle school choir, for about 13 years. Really loved that, loved my students. had a chance to, you know, stay at home and and hang out with my kids. My oldest is now a junior in high school, but kinda took a step back from that and had started photography and that, sort of became its own business. That's where I started learning a little bit about marketing and and how to get people to be interested in what on earth I was doing. and then I, you know, as a byproduct of running that that photography business, learned how to build my own website, had had taught myself a lot of things about marketing and courses, just having taken a whole bunch of them, and had some friends who were authors who just asked for my help. So started doing that on the side and found I really loved it. and then ended up in a marketing role, for an event, a women's inspirational event, And that's when I ran across Story Brand. I was having a hard time trying to come up with the right words to talk about this event in the problem that it solved for the women who would come, and they loved it, but getting new people to come was really tricky. So, took the story brand online course and realized We just needed to have a clear message. So we sat down and came up with a better website header, had a buy now button on our site, and doubled the number of tickets that we sold that year just from those 2 quick changes that we made. So that was enough to convince me that this worked and kinda started out on my own as a marketer after leaving that event company with, an author that's you know, in the thinkers 50. She's she's a really she's a thought leader and an author, but she just really had the hardest time talking about what she did without going into a huge story that kind of made people's eyes blaze over. So we went to that live event, and, and I became a guide shortly after that, had a had my own marketing consultancy for about 6 years and a year ago, was asked to become the director of the program, so that they could have with directing the program who had also been in the issues of the folks who were building their own marketing businesses. So that was a little longer version than I normally tell, but that's the whole path. And I feel like I think, you know, every single thing you do ahead of If you look back, you can see the way the paths have turned and and shifted to get you to the place where you are. And, you know, I love teaching. I love helping people progress and grow, and I love co creating with them and and all of the things that I love about the jobs that I've had have all had that aspect in them.

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:27]: Yeah. It's great. I like the point that you mentioned about the the clarity with all the the message and and understanding because, like, I always say, like, people will never buy what they can't understand.

Macy Robison [00:05:37]: Absolutely. And,

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:37]: like, think about it. Like, what's the last thing that you bought? Have you ever bought something that I really don't know what this is, but I'm I'm about to spend money. You don't do that. You have to understand it very clearly. it's only then that you go and make that decision to buy it. And also, like, we've talked about before on the show how it's common for a creator to really, like, you're passionate about whatever it is you're teaching or selling. and you might be more passionate about it and into it at a deeper level than your potential customer is. Your potential customer may get there, but they're not there quite yet. And so Yeah. You don't wanna just go on and on, and then their eyes glaze over, and you're all of a sudden at this point that they have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

Macy Robison [00:06:17]: Right.

Bryan McAnulty [00:06:17]: And so, yeah, that clarity and and simplicity and all that, we'll get them to the next step. So then later, you can teach them and help them understand enough that they they want to know all of that other information.

Macy Robison [00:06:31]: Yeah. It's it's really all about building a relationship. We talk a lot about there being a gap of knowledge. Lee La fever talks about that in one of his books that you are an expert at what you do. You understand this at a 10. And the people who are buying from you, well, really anyone who's buying, this applies to anything. Like you said, you don't buy things you don't understand. People buy it a 1 or a 2. as far as their knowledge goes. And we've just gotta overcome that that gap of knowledge with something. And it's the way that you talk about the products and the services that you offer. And in this case, the course you have this level of expertise that's vast enough that you chose to become a teacher and chose to create this content to help people in their path and their journey. but they don't know. They're not there yet. They're sitting over here at a at a 1 or a 2, and you've got to meet them where they are. You gotta get over to where they are so that they want to buy. because there are so many that if you look at products in the marketplace, It's not the best product that wins. It's not the best course that necessarily sells the most. It's the people that it's the one that people understand the best. And so you could have an amazing course, an amazing product. But if people don't understand what it's going to do for them and what problem it's gonna solve for them, or how it's going to help them transform. They just won't buy it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:44]: Yep. Yeah. We always say you gotta sell the result, sell the transformation,

Macy Robison [00:07:48]: Yep.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:49]: And, leave out leave out the buzz words, the the fancy explanations, and all that. That that's not what resonates with. the person who wants to buy it because they're they're not buying it because they wanna learn a specific thing. There's a reason they wanna learn that thing, and that's what you have to sell.

Macy Robison [00:08:03]: Yep. Absolutely.

Bryan McAnulty [00:08:04]: Yeah. Okay. I wanna get more into that, but before, like, I think, like, the path that a creator takes is really important and really interesting. So, like, You shared some of that already, but how would you say, like, your background in education influenced, like, your approach to marketing and where you're at today?

Macy Robison [00:08:22]: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know if anyone's ever asked me that before. I think, I think the way it's influenced me in two ways. 1, in the kind of work I like to do and how I like to do it. And just a reminder that I always love to be a teacher 1st and and, and and helping people progress. So the idea that they're going to transform is a really compelling one for me. I I love seeing that transformation. I'm the person that, like, is always crying at a graduation when you see, you know, the kids singing the song. At the end, like, I love seeing that transformation, them thinking their teachers and their graduation speeches, like, that stuff has been crying all the time. I I really love seeing that transformation, and that that's been a big part of it. I also realized kind of midway through, my marketing consultancy business that, I love working with one to many, like being able to teach me to a group of people. Like, I I usually had 90 kids in my room. that was a really great thing. I loved that. And I also loved the to work with some people one on 1. So that affected the way I structured my business. I had, you know, do things on social media, tried to teach one to many as much as possible and then had a couple of people that I would have on retainer that I could really pour into and and, you know, be on be with them and and help them grow their businesses, over time. So some of the folks that I worked with that you know, have hit the New York Times list or I've helped them launch their podcasts and that's grown. Those are the folks that I I really love working with one on 1. I was Like, I was a choir teacher, a top private voice lessons during after school, and then add, you know, all the kids in the room during the day. And that was probably the happiest I was in my work as a teacher and tried to find a way to put that into, the marketing work I was doing as well as as far as how my business was structured. Awesome.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:19]: Yeah. I think, I think it's important for, like, every creator to kinda consider their their background on what they've been doing because often like, the pieces will eventually come together into what you're working on now. And that kind of also shows you, like, where your strengths lie. Yeah. And, like, I know for myself, like, I wouldn't be doing exactly what I'm doing now with Hertz platform if I didn't do a bunch of things before that led up to that with, like, building, start as a web design agency, then try doing these other digital products and things like that. And, like, so that kind of uniquely positioned me to like, have the experience to build the software product and know, like, why I'm building it, what it needs to do and all of that. And if I was someone who had just started out and said, like, that this is the first I was gonna do, it just wouldn't be the same. And I don't know if it would be nearly as successful as maybe it is today because I didn't have those past experiences. So I think it's important to, like, recognize what you did in the past. Even if you feel it doesn't directly connect to what it you're doing now because it most likely does in some way relate to your strengths.

Macy Robison [00:11:26]: Yeah. That was the surprise for me. I remember, like, being kind of an happy with the way things were going in my business and realizing, like, it it really took that step back and reflecting on when was I the happiest to figure that piece out of, like, I like working with a couple people in a deep way, and I like, you know, everybody else. Like, let's just teach you what I can teach you and go from there. And also just being able to work directly with with the individual, like, that cocreative process is really important to me. I was looking at creating an agency where I was going to be, you know, working with some moms that I know who wanted part time work, who were good writers, who'd stepped away from the the workplace and starting to build that out and realized, like, I was gonna lose the opportunity to work one on one with the authors and thought leaders that I really love those relationships with and that cocreative process with. And, you know, it didn't feel right. So pivoted again and kept moving.

Bryan McAnulty [00:12:20]: Got it. Alright. So I wanna go back into, like, the kind of marketing now. So what it is story based marketing And could you explain how that approach differs from maybe more traditional marketing methods and why you think it's so effective in today's landscape?

Macy Robison [00:12:37]: Sure. Narrative marketing, you know, I my colleague, Doctor. JJ Peterson, he is the head of story brand. He wrote his dissertation on the effectiveness of narrative marketing. You know, there's there's several different kinds, but when it comes to the message that is the core of what you're sharing, that narrative marketing that tells a story measured the effectiveness of that, specifically the story brand marketing framework. but he found that that it was the most effective, first of all, and it was most effective when you implemented that marketing. So if you came up with a clear message, And then the more you put that in your pieces of collateral, the more effective that was. And I think the reason it's so effective is what you alluded to earlier. that we love transformation. We love seeing a transformation. That's the thing that people buy. That's the thing that they, you know, they're looking to solve a problem. They feel not great about where they are now. They can see where they want to become. and that narrative transportation in our marketing. If we can invite them into a story and show how they can transform with our product, with our service, it's really compelling. you know, I think the other reason it works really well is story is one of the things that really cuts through our the noise in our brains just from a neuroscience perspective, you know, when we're watching movies, We don't daydream very often. Like, we do when we're, you know, doing other tasks that story engages us and and keeps us interested and keeps us wanting to know what's going to happen next. So when we can utilize that, invite customers into a story, make sure we're sharing, like, what's helping them survive and thrive and and and making sure we're clear, it just really compels the human mind to act. And so, I I think that's why it works so well. certainly there are marketing tactics and strategies that we layer on top of that message, but at its foundation, we're inviting customers into a story of transformation, and it's really, really a powerful thing.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:41]: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. The the story itself is what, like, bridges the gap and makes that in between, like, this is the thing that you want, and and here's here's the explanation of, like, the the thing that makes it interesting of how you understand how you could get

Macy Robison [00:14:55]: Yeah. And I will say to you, like, when you hear, story based marketing, I think one of the mistakes that people make is they think they have to tell their story as the creator or their story, about as a company, but what is the most powerful is when you invite customers into a story, when you position yourself as the guide, and not the hero of the story. You make your customers the hero of the story. Because at the end of the day, we're all our own hero of our own story. And if I come to someone's website and they're just telling me about how great they are or about how great their product is, I'm looking for a guide. I'm not looking for another hero. So I'm gonna go somewhere else and and disengage and and go look for someone who can guide me to the transformation that I'm hoping to achieve. So, you know, if your listeners remember nothing else, just remember that. If you can position your customer as the hero, if you can make sure the story you're telling and the marketing language that you're using talks about their hopes, their fears, their things that they are worried about and invites them into that transformation, you're gonna see a huge, huge increase in, the the amount of people that wanna come work with you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:16:05]: Yeah. That's great. Okay. That's a great tip. So for for those who are struggling with, like, clarifying their own brand's message, let's say, like, for the part where they they want to describe the story of their brand, realizing that what you just said is really important, What would you say to help a business kind of better articulate their unique brand story?

Macy Robison [00:16:27]: Yeah. What we usually do is start with what's the overall transformation you're hoping to help this customer achieve? They're gonna go from what to what? Are they gonna be a more empowered leader, a, a more, confident business person. What is the transformation? And once we know what that is, then we can go back and say, okay. What does my customer need? What do they want to get to that transformation? And what's the problem that's getting in the way of them? getting that thing. if you it's really based on the hero's journey. if you think of any movie, you know, there's there's a character at the beginning that's ill equipped. He doesn't know what he wants. That's our customer. and we there there's a there's something that's keeping him from getting what he wants. And then a guide shows up with a plan. Dumbledore has a plan for Harry Potter. Obi Wan Kenobi has a plan for Luke Skywalker, we show up as the owner of the company as the, you know, course creator, with a plan for them to help them transform into that. that thing they want to become. we also give them a call to action that's clear, and then we make sure we show them what what success looks like and what failure could look like if they choose not to act because at the end of the day, it's up to them. So that's that's part of the that's kind of a quick overview of the 7 part framework. that we, that that the story brand, brand script is made up of. and if you wanna, you know, take a crack at filling out your own, There's a book called building a story brand that's great, but we also have a free tool. If you go to storybrand.com forward slash brand script, You can start to play around with this and figure out what pieces of the story go in these different, parts that we've together into a narrative that helps clarify your message for your customers. I think the biggest thing though, like I said, is just remembering, that you're inviting customers into a story. They have a problem that they need solved, you have the solution. And if you can give them a plan, and you show up with empathy and authority, you know, we wanna make sure as a, as a business owner, as of course creator, that you let your customers know that you understand where they've been and you have the knowledge help get them to where they want to go. but that's a that's a little bit different than showing up on a website and talking about how how great you are and how long ago you wrote your course and that you, you know, love long walks on the beach and all of those things, if that's not gonna help me necessarily solve my problem. It's a good thing to talk about later when they're in a relationship with you, because I think marketing is a relationship building, I guess, exercise, you know, But when you first meet someone, they want to if you think about when you meet someone for the first time, you know, if you show up and just tell them how great you are, they're gonna they're gonna lean back. We wanna invite them in and show that we're interested in them and their problem and show that we have a solution and can solve it. So

Bryan McAnulty [00:19:23]: Yeah. Yeah. That has to be a reason that they would they would care to to be hearing that. yep, that makes sense. So this might be more of a a complicated question to to try to be able to explain, like, quickly on a podcast here, but let's say, like, I figured it out, I'm gonna build this story from my brand then, like, where where do I tell that? Where do I show that? Is that gonna be, like, the home page of my website that's describing that? Is it, like, in my social media? is it everywhere? And if it is everywhere, then, like, how is it different and how, like, how can I continue to create content about that because I I would imagine that some creators might be concerned and say like, okay. Well, I figured out the story, but, like, after I after I've said it, like, that's it. Now what happens? How how do I continue to create content and promote myself?

Macy Robison [00:20:14]: No. That is a great question. And the answer is, yes, you use it everywhere, but there are if you look at the brand script on that, that that URL I shared, there are 7 different parts. And each of those parts can be shared in different combinations throughout your marketing collateral. what I like to think about is, you know, where where is this piece of marketing collateral gonna show up in the relationship I'm trying to build with that person? So, you know, we have a tool that we create from from the brand script called the One liner, which is, you know, when someone asks what you do instead of hitting them with a job title or giving them an over complicated explanation of what you do, you know, you can say something like, you know, most most people have a, here's the one for story brand, for example. Most companies have a hard time talking about what they do in a way that's clear. We have a 7 part messaging framework that allows you to clarify your message so that your business can grow. So it's problem, and then your solution and then the result. And that helps people become more curious and and lean in. So that's one way to use that message. you know, those are 3 different parts of that that framework.

Bryan McAnulty [00:21:20]: Actually, I wanna interject here quick to say, like, that's really powerful because it also, like, what you just said you could go to anybody off the street and tell that to them, and they would understand as well. And, like, I I remember, like, early on in my business, Like, even when I was just doing, like, web design and things like that, somebody would ask me what I did. I'll try to explain it, and I realized, like, they're not technical at all. And, so I would end up defaulting to something that was much more simpler and just say, I help people make websites or something, but I couldn't really share what I was doing. And because I wasn't I wasn't dissecting it like that to be able to say like the problem result and like what we're actually building. And so I think anybody listening to this, if you feel like, oh, yeah, that's that's me too, then, definitely give give this some thought of how you would describe yourself in that that one liner.

Macy Robison [00:22:10]: Yeah. It helps people lean in. It helps them remember what you do. It opens up a conversation that's more based in curiosity than just, like, we're making small talk. and I, you know, it it it just starts that relationship in that path. You're gonna be more memorable know, if I wanna have a conversation with someone on an airplane, if I'm not ready to have the conversation, I give that answer. I'm like, oh, I'm in marketing, you know, but if I'm open and wanna have a conversation, I share my one liner, and it always it always sparks a conversation. And even if they're not someone that I can do business with, they're going to remember me. and and refer me, you know, in the in the future because we remember people based on the problems that they solve.

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:48]: and

Macy Robison [00:22:49]:

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:49]: That's what I was gonna say. That's it's so powerful for referring people because when you can describe it so clearly that anyone can understand it, then that person can go and say, hey, Macy, actually, she does this.

Macy Robison [00:23:01]: Mhmm.

Bryan McAnulty [00:23:02]: And they can go tell somebody else who might be a potential customer of yours.

Macy Robison [00:23:05]: Yep. Yep.

Bryan McAnulty [00:23:06]: And if somebody goes and you you tell them this this more complicated thing and they're just not really getting it, then how are they gonna go and tell that to somebody else? And if they do, they may not be telling the right person. and all of a sudden, less like so for me, a comparison thinking back then, like, we shifted more from, like, a website to, like, a web application, like, kind of thing that, like, Facebook or Heights platform where it's a software that's building something. And so if that's what we're focused on, but then somebody goes and says, like, Oh, they do websites and then somebody contacts us, hey. I've got referred to you of this person. Can you do a website for, like, my landscaping company or something? And at the time we're doing this web application, it's actually not our customer anymore.

Macy Robison [00:23:47]: Right.

Bryan McAnulty [00:23:47]: And so then even if you're still getting a referral, it's not the right referral. Whereas if it's clear, now you have people can go out there and actually be selling your brand for you.

Macy Robison [00:24:00]: That is exactly how it works. And the great thing that's powerful about it too is if you have folks on your team, they can also memorize this one liner. You can put it in your social media by, like, your profile at the top. I've had it in my email signature. It just helps people memorize what you do. Marketing at the end of the day is really an exercise in memorization. So even though we don't love to repeat ourselves, if we can repeat ourselves with clarity, people start to memorize what we do. and they're drawn to clarity and away from confusion. And, it it just really helps you cut through the noise. and make sure people are paying attention to you. and as far as other places to use that clear message, I think the next best place to use it is a website. because if people talk to you and they wanna know more about what you do, the very next place they're gonna go is your website. And if that is confusing experience for them, that's not clear, they're gonna disengage. So we like to say a website header in particular should pass the grant test. It should be able you should be able to handle top to a caveman and have him understand what you do, what you sell, and how I can get it. And it should be that clear at the top. with very little competing, clutter at the top of that page. And then they scroll down and can learn more and can continue you know, understanding and getting enlightened about what you do. we have another tool that might be helpful to your listeners. if you go to storybrand.com forward slash makeover, It's one of my favorite, tools that we have. It's a video series called 5 Minute Marketing Makeover. And Donald Miller, who's the The author of building a story brand walks through some really great suggestions that you can start to apply to your website right away. the ones I mentioned earlier with my events company that I worked at. You know, having a buy now button in the upper right hand corner of your screen or schedule an appointment or whatever your call to action might be. When we look at a site, our eyes scan kind of in a z formation. So, you know, they go from left to right and that upper right hand corner is really prime real estate. that's usually filled with something that doesn't compel our our potential customers to take action. It doesn't mean they will, but they at least know where it is. Like, I can walk into a store, not expecting to buy anything, but I still know where the cash register is. So I kind of think of that button in the right hand corner as as the cash register. I know where to check out when I'm ready. and then, you know, that really clear language at the top helps me understand if this is the right thing for me because It's it's sharing what you do. It's sharing what problem you solve and how I can get it. So, I think that's the next best place to use it. And from there, you know, people opt in, hopefully, you have a a lead magnet that helps, you know, continue that relationship. If they're not ready to take that direct call to action, they can download a PDF, get on your email list, and you continue to nurture that relationship with them pulling from the messages you put in your your brand script, that story, you could have one email talking about the success that you experience. You can have one email talking about, you know, the problem that you solve, the problem that they're facing and can continue to pull little bits and pieces from, that brand script. It's sort of like I was a music teacher. So there are 7 different pieces. It's sort of like having, 7 chords on a guitar. You get them really clear and really good at at sharing those messages, and then you put them together in all different combinations and and make music so that people, wanna come listen. But blots of ways to use it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:27]: Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Great analogy. Alright. So you've also been involved as we mentioned before in launching these New York Times best selling books, successful podcasts. Could you share maybe a, some kind of like case where the more narrative based marketing played a role in achieving that kind of outcome or or what what did that even look like for, like, how would you apply that kind of narrative based marketing to a podcast, for example.

Macy Robison [00:27:57]: Yeah. So great great question. I do have, you know, one of my clients is, like you said, a New York Times best selling author, and it was really great to step in and start working with her on launching this book. She has a really clear vision of who she's trying to help and the problem she's trying to solve and the problem that the book solves And so as we were creating marketing for that book, you know, making sure the website at the top talked about this is the book this problem solves. If you have this problem, this book is for you. making sure all of the social media spoke to that transformation, the book was going to help them achieve. and and we're just really clear, just repeating ourselves over and over and over again. about how if you, you know, can learn how to, you know, it was about fighting fear, basically, that you can show up and and fight fear and and get past it. and just talking about what life would be like when you get past that fear, was really, really instrumental in helping her, get the soundbite she needed to talk about the book in a way that helped people understand it really was for them. So, you know, she'd previously hit the New York Times list, but she hit it a higher. Like, she was a number 3 this time instead of number 9. I think she was the first time, and and a lot of it really was that clear message that we kept repeating again and again and again, leading people through that exercise and memorization that made the difference in people picking up the book. and picking up the book for other people too, wanting to, you know, give it as a gift to help others who were struggling. So, you know, I That's one example for a book, but I've seen it work for everything from, like, landscaping to chiropractic care to online courses if if you understand who your customer is, what problem they're facing, and you can position what you're selling as a solution to that problem, make it clear to them that you're showing up as a guide for them and that you have a plan for them and you know where they're trying to go. it just really helps people come follow where you're headed and and join you as as the guide and then them as the hero.

Bryan McAnulty [00:30:08]: Awesome. Yeah. That's great. I mean, I know for myself, I'm I'm not sure if I am, maybe the perfect example of this or not, but I can at least share that what I feel has been useful and my lens of looking at this is I know who my customer is, and my job here, like, on this podcast, is to figure out if like, it's I have to go and get all the answers that I can for my customer. So my customer can't be sitting here asking me those questions. So I have to think, what's all the things that they need to know? And, like, oh, if -- Yeah.

Macy Robison [00:30:38]:

Bryan McAnulty [00:30:38]: with Macy says something, but that's gonna leave, like, this other thing that I'm still curious about. can I make sure that I get that answer as well so that way they can get to their next stage. And also adding into that, though, as well, things that I might be curious about because if I'm curious about it, probably other people are as well. So that's kind of my my lens in in looking at that. And I think that could be applied in a similar way to others, doing something similar.

Macy Robison [00:31:07]: Absolutely.

Bryan McAnulty [00:31:08]: Cool. Alright. Well, I've got one more question for you. And on the show, we'd like to ask each of our guests to ask a question to the audience. So if you could ask anything to our audience, whether it's something you're curious about, something that you kinda wanna get everybody thinking about, what would that be?

Macy Robison [00:31:26]: That is a good question. So I, I would say I think it it you'll start to see this in the marketplace if you pay attention. there are brands and products and you know, there there's just any number of things competing for our attention. But if you look at the brands that are doing well, if you look at your favorite brands, maybe take a look at how they are utilizing narrative marketing. how are they showing up and solving a problem for you? How are they inviting you into a story of transformation. you know, I I look at a lot of course creators out there who do a really, really good job with this of saying, You know, I've been where you are. I understand what you're feeling. I know this is where you wanna go. I know you're feeling this problem, and and it's keeping you from getting the result that you want. here's how I can help you, and here's the thing you need to do to get that help. Of course, you need to buy the thing you need to purchase, you know, if you you can if you take a step back, you'll see this in a lot of the ways that brands and and and, you know, companies operate. So just pay attention to that. And then once you start to see it, you can start to reverse engineer what makes that memorable and and compelling. So I would just ask you to maybe to do that, to pay attention to that, because it's really, really cool to see it in use. And I think it would help, help inform your marketing. And and I I just, you know, it's kind of more of an ask than a question, but paying attention to that, I think, is going to make you a better marketer when it comes to getting your courses, in the hands of the people who really need to make that transformation that you sell.

Bryan McAnulty [00:33:09]: Awesome. Great. Alright. Well, Macy, thanks so much. before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Macy Robison [00:33:16]: Well, I'm on social everywhere at Macy Robinson, m a c y r o b i s o n. You know, happy to connect on LinkedIn or on Instagram. I'm on threads, any of those socials. but I think, you know, the best thing to do, if you're really interested in this, is to take a look at writing your own brand script. you know, you could, like I said, you can go to storybrand.com forward slash brand script or storybrand.com forward slash makeover if you wanna see how that can apply to collateral. Or, you know, I I have, a certification filled with over 600 guides all over the globe who, if you don't wanna do this yourself, can come along and walk alongside you, help you co create the story for your company, for your, course, for your brand to help you reach the people you're trying to reach. So you can go to marketing made simple.com to find those folks and, really appreciate the chance to talk about this. I'd be here today. This is awesome.

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:14]: Alright. Thanks so much, Macy.

Macy Robison [00:34:16]: Thank you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:17]: I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5000 creators at creatorclimb.com. If you enjoyed this episode and wanna hear more, check out the HEIGHTS platform YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9 AM US Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our newsletter at the creators adventure.com. Until then, keep learning, and I'll see you in the next episode.

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About the Host

Bryan McAnulty is the founder of Heights Platform: all-in-one online course creation software that allows creators to monetize their knowledge.

His entrepreneurial journey began in 2009, when he founded Velora, a digital product design studio, developing products and websites used by millions worldwide. Stemming from an early obsession with Legos and graphic design programs, Bryan is a designer, developer, musician, and truly a creator at heart. With a passion for discovery, Bryan has traveled to more than 30 countries and 100+ cities meeting creators along the way.

As the founder of Heights Platform, Bryan is in constant contact with creators from all over the world and has learned to recognize their unique needs and goals.

Creating a business from scratch as a solopreneur is not an easy task, and it can feel quite lonely without appropriate support and mentorship.

The show The Creator’s Adventure was born to address this need: to build an online community of creative minds and assist new entrepreneurs with strategies to create a successful online business from their passions.

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